somehow, Evan gave me this idea with his thread about the K2...
i recall reading many years past of a group who decided to manufacture a haunting...
they started out by locating a suitably creepy location,i belive it was a house they rented, and set about INVENTING a history of its past(pure invention)they made sure this location had no history of ghosts etc, and also made sure that the invented history had nothing in common with previous owners or history of tenants.
a story was built up about a young lady who committed suicide upon hearing of her lovers death during the first world war.she was given a name, and even a image was made of how she was to appear.
the invented story then claimed, each evening a soft weeping is heard inside the house, followed by footsteps..
the ghostly image of a girl is seen, sometimes sitting in the front parlour crying, other times hanging from a tree in the back courtyard.......etc etc....
Once they had fully spent time in the house, and the story was retold amoungst the group,(i belive they even held a mock "memorial"for her funeral... a seance was held, but the invited participants had not been told of the "invented story" other than it was a building with alledged paranormal phenomena...
the results apparently, amazed the group, with the medium even being able to "channel" the "ghost" of the girl!
others (not of the group)who later stayed in the house, reported a number of occurances that tied in with the concocted story......
NOW ITS MY TURN...
i want to build my own ghosty....and I'm willing to turn tables and tread the oiuja board to do it...
anyone intrested?
oh, and Goat, can i use your house?

You import livestock into my house and now you want to import deadstock too?

its for science, sure you would appreciate that...
but i really would like it if any one would care to share some IDEAS....or does anyone remember the article i'm talking about? i may have recalled it inacurately...it was some time ago...

i haven't seen such interesting thread for a long time, good work mate!

well...firstly, it leads us to conclusion that i hope GM members are aware of - we often see or experience what we want to
people who started this experiment simply provided the guests with placebo
but...apart from hallucinations caused by their aroused imagination...there were no ghosties there

i would like to say that i'm in, Fordo...but only when we'll have a recipe for a real ghost to appear...
without using ouija board or any other worn-out magical practice...pure scientific experiment, involving creation of numerous favourable enviromental conditions
now, the question is, my dear brainiacs, what would make a proper bait for a ghost to swallow and cause him visit us in a place that is not at all likely to be haunted...ex. a scientific laboratory?

oh c'mon Iwona, this can be fun too, labs are good for a haunting....like many a modern building...lets get some ideas on a location first, so its one vote for a laboratory...
and why not ouija boards? after all, it can be used just like the invention of a ghost for effect and to "excite" the mind...and would be better than using chemicals.....the important part being that any attempted comunication with a spirit is conducted by persons not part of the "Creation" process...but i get your point...
but lets start with location...
my vote is for a house, as it would lend privacy and enable easy access...the ideal house would be one with NO history of haunting or tradgedy(or maybe that would be better, but create a ghost that had nothing to do with the history of the location)
anyhows, i need to develop this concept abit, and put in some planning...i need a list, like personel, equipment, location, etc...feel free to make suggestions...


the capitalist in me is seeing a great marketing opportunity, "freeze dried ghosts,scientifically developed for maximum frights, just add water" 50 dollars a pack, 60 for poltergiests, 80 for incarnate demons....amuse your friends, horrify your neigbours!

hahaha...hmmm i smell moneyyyy

very well then...we've got a location, which is a house that bears NO reported ghostly history
<i hereby resign from the 'laboratory' idea, i doubt anyone would let us do this freaky stuff in such place anyway>

we already know how to make 'outsiders' believe that they had a ghostly experience...
but IF we want a real ghostie to appear, we have to work on some tips and tricks then

so let's start from the participants:
in my opinion the personnel should consist of at least two persons susceptible to paranormal, the ones that claim to attract spirits and sense them; and one of them should be a child, preferably a problematic one...as ghosts seem to like them more than adults......they would be the bait
it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a medium...but a quite credible person, not like the one from the 'fake' experiment;
and finally a few persons that would take care of technical stuff

so..anyone to correct or add someone to my personnel list?

i'm not sure how you find a credible "medium"...i'll try the phone book...
and i likes the idea of a child as a sacrifice...opps mean an agent for the attraction of paranormal forces....but proceed...

You mention using a child as a sacrifice to attract paranormal forces.
How far would you and this group go in the sacrifice ritual to attact the forces?
What you are suggestion appears to be a satanic ritual and we know that quite often people who do these things attract things they never intended.
As I see it if you ventured into this you could attract a group of spirits with nothing better to do then see how far you and your group would be willing to go on this and then they might decide to take over your body and use you as a tool for Evil and if that happens you will find out just how much fun schemes like you are proposing can be.

I believe Fordo intended the word 'sacrifice' in jest, Rosemary - of course I can't be sure about the Chupacabra. Then again I won't deny the wisdom of a little caution being employed in this experiment (whatever that might entail).

If 'problematic children' means the type that attract poltergiests then does that really help us. The question remains: is a poltergeist a real spirit or a manifestation of the problem child's pyschokinetic abilities?

And You Chupa - you say the location has been decided - what exactly did you have in mind? Do you have a house to volunteer over there in Poland?

And finally, are we talking about a real hauting involving an actual spirit or do we mean something based purely on belief. I suspect Fordo and Iwona might be diverging on this issue. Perhaps Fordo could clarify his intent?

i'm not into satanic rituals....

...and it's not the intention to attract a poltergeist in this case, children are sensitive to various kinds of ghosts, and vice versa...but i wouldn't mind witnessing a child's psychokinetic abilities after all

GOATY...i had no particular house on my mind
...and yes, seems like Fordo's and my visions of the experiment are diverging....so i'll better leave it...

Don't leave. I just was to clarify each idea.

i'm not at all expert here, just having fun...so i'll leave it for the others anyway...*waves*

OH noes! come back chupa-lupa! we need your input....

oh yessssssssss I'm allready EVIL and dont need to be possessed....cant you tell?mwhahahahahah...

well, actually Rosemary...if someone performing a satanic ritual attracts things they never intended, what would that be? the spirit of sweetness and grace perhaps? otherwise, i'm not sure what intent a "satanic" ritual is meant to have...
as an aside, and for all the kids at home...Fordo is only joking....but for education purposes, just remember, the word "SATAN" comes from a certain middle eastern language and it simply means "adversary" or "Opposed"
and the last time i sacrificed something, it was only my dignity.......

OK...this sounds pretty cool,..
what about trying to manipulate EMF's like i mentioned in the "K2" thread...
something that may cause one to see or experience strange phenoms.
I'm in.

I do recall reading what you mentioned..but don't remember where.

I'd like to see infrasound implemented in one of the rooms... maybe the basement, or attic... If the house has either

Manufacturing a ghost eh?

You may be interested in this article I found:

The Philip Phenomenon

A 'Made In Canada' Ghost

“Philip was an aristocratic Englishman living in the middle 1600s at the time of Oliver Cromwell. He had been a supporter of the king and was a Catholic. He was married to a beautiful but cold and frigid wife, Dorothea, the daughter of a neighbouring nobleman. One day, when out riding on the boundaries of his estates, Philip came across a gypsy encampment and saw there a beautiful dark-eyed, raven-haired gypsy girl, Margo, and fell instantly in love with her.

He brought her back secretly to live in the gate-house near the stables of Diddington Manor - his family home. For some time he kept his love-nest secret, but eventually Dorothea, realizing he was keeping someone else there, found Margo, and accused her of witchcraft and of stealing her husband. Philip was too scared of losing his reputation and his possessions to protest at the trial of Margo, and she was convicted of witchcraft and burned at the stake. Philip subsequently was stricken with remorse that he had not tried to defend Margo and used to pace the battlements of Diddington in despair. Finally one morning his body was found at the foot of the battlements where he had cast himself in a fit of agony and remorse.”

This of course is a very tragic tale that contains many elements normally associated with reports of historical ghosts. It is however a complete fabrication.

The true story of ‘Philip’ is actually a remarkable experiment that was conducted in the early 1970’s by The Toronto Society Of Psychical Research. The purpose of the experiment was to see if a wholly fictious historical character - ghost could in fact manifest itself through the groups efforts of concentration on the bogus data.

Dr. A.R.G Owen, a member of the Department For Preventative Medicine and Biostatistics at the University of Toronto and psychic researcher who specialized in poltergeist cases was the group’s scientific advisor. He is quoted in the introduction to “Conjuring Up Phillip” as saying, “It was essential to their purpose that Philip be a totally fictious character. Not merely a figament of the imagination but clearly and obviously so, with a biography full of historical errors.”

The opening paragraph of this article is the basic storyline that was concocted by one of the group’s members named only as “Sue” - a former nurse with the Canadian Armed Forces. Further details including a sketch were added on as the group discussed and immersed themselves in Philip’s invented biographical data. Contradictions such as Philip being reincarnated several times yet also being seen walking the battlements of Diddington every century or so were carefully woven into the story. And while a Diddington Hall really does exist in Warckshire, England the group made sure that the real location’s history in no way resembled Philip’s home. In essence the group sought to create a “collective hallucination” of Philip through subscribing to a common mental picture of him and his surroundings.They meditated on his appearance, his food preferences, and mostly his ‘feelings’ towards his wife Dorothea and his gypsy lover Margo.

The experiment went on for months with absolutely no success. The group would sit around a table and merely concentrate - much like the spiritualists of the 19th century. And then one day it just happened. There was a knock on the table, which at first was felt more than heard. All of the group’s eight members felt the vibration. This was followed by a number of distinct knocks that were in fact heard and felt. Skeptical at first, the group felt that these knocks were perhaps inadvertently the result of one of the group’s participants. They quickly changed their minds when the table itself began to move around the room. When a startled member asked aloud, “I wonder whether Philip is doing this,” a loud knock was heard as if in response. Philip, a made in Canada ghost had finally arrived.

The group devised a plan in which one knock would signify a yes and two knocks would indicate a no. Soon after they began enjoying ‘spirited’ conversation with Philip. This ‘entity’ that they apparently conjured up “exhibited likes and dislikes, had strong views on some subjects and was hesitant on others.” They questioned ‘him’ on his personal life. And once when an apparently too personal question was asked in regards to ‘his’ wife Dorothea loud scratching sounds were heard.

It was noted that the ghostly sounds and movements of the table seemed closely related to the thoughts of the group. If they were in agreement to what an answer should be the resulting ‘yes’ knock was quick and loud. If there were doubts amongst the group’s members the result would be a corresponding hesitation in the sounds.

As their experiment progressed the participants would engage in teasing and joking with Philip. The table movements and knocks became more frequent and it was reported that the table would occasionally rush up as if in greeting to latecomers and even trap members in the corner of the room! Philip apparently was the cause of lights turning off and on by themselves and other strange anomalies as well.

The experiment captured the attention of local media with group and ‘ghost’ featured on the CBC television show “Man Alive” as well as other talk shows of the day.

A 16mm movie was produced by the group in 1974 entitled Philip: the Imaginary Ghost. It explains how the experiment was conceived, and what actually happened, showing tables movements and actual raps. Please see our note in regards below.

In conclusion the experimenters succeeded far beyond their wildest expectations. However, in the end they were never able to prove the ‘how’ and the ‘why’ behind Philip’s manifestation.Was Philip a direct result of the group’s collective subconscious or perhaps did they conjure an actual entity that simply latched onto the story? We may never be able to actually answer these questions in regards to this particular case. However, the Philip phenomenon remains not only a groundbreaking experiment, but an important historical account of para-reasearch efforts in Canada.

Source

Oh wow, thank you Big G.!

Now, i tend towards the view that Phillip was a product of participant's minds...or this could be also a random entity playing tricks on them, simply having fun.
In my opinion it's rather unlikely that there was a ghost around that meets the criteria to a large extent.
The experiment took place in Toronto, while Peter's 'life' was placed in England.
I believe that a certain ghost is either in an area or not, as a residual energy attached to the place which he was emotionally close to.
For instance, it would be bizarre to find a Conquistador in Africa because there was no Spanish colonisation there...

But where does this article take us now?
What should we concentrate on, and what kind of 'ghost' are we looking for then?
There are three options:
1. we're making up a history of life of a person that lived somewhere else
2. we're making up a story about someone who lived and died in the area and is likely to be hanging around
3. we try to hunt a real ghostie

I read an article related to a group of scientists creating a male ghost and after 3 months of paranormal experiences they decided to tell him "You're not real, we created you" and ever since the ghost stopped existing, I read it at www.unexplained-mysteries.com long ago I believe

I think it's the one gigan just provided.

ta Chupa, i guess there are a few things to consider too...
if we make up a story about someone who actually lived, we may just be "invoking" that actual ghost, which is another experiment on its own, just like hunting a "real" ghostie...and the reason for inventing a ghostie is simple, as so called legitamate "hauntings" are erratic and havemade investigators and study teams draw ablank all too often,wouldnt it be a great idea to put various investigation methods to the test using a synthetic agent?ie: our "invented ghost"?
especially as it would be at our controll?
and i think the first thing we need to do is define what a ghost is supposedly meant to be...residual energy? a trapped soul of a sentient being?a glimpse into a past event? a psychic projection?
or all of the above?

Questions no one alive can answer and where ghost-hunting gets stuck (although some may try to even claim to know the answers) and the Investigation I believe was not the act of invoking a ghost but the use of their internal tk through months of practice.

this little project will take some planning me thinks.....
if all else fails i can just try something easy, like summoning the Devil....whoops, too late.....here he comes now...gotta get back to work...

As challenging as it may be to achieve an artificial haunting.
Recording and analysing the result is sure to provide us with at least as many difficulties.

The entire experimental process needs to be documented in as many ways as possible.
(Video, audio, written observations, readings of temperatures EMF, etc)

An experiment that cannot be analysed, understood and repeated is practically useless to science except maybe as a pointer towards what might worth a 'proper' investigation later.

Thats part of my point goatstuff, as most paranormal "investigations" seem to have much the same, and inconclusive results, hence, how good would it be to have a test-ghost so we could fine tune and perhaps expand upon the methods currently employed by ghosty hunters...
lets face it, modern technology used in "ghost hunts" still doesnt give us much, just raises more questions, and whilst this little experiment may do no more than raise some questions of its own, lets call it for wont of a better phrase, "target practice"
or even simply a psychological experiment, after all, we dont know if it is actually possible to create a "ghost" or simply disturb enough peoples psyche to gain results via hysteria or haulcinations....
and most importantly, it could be damn fun to try....

I think its possible that a Spirit saw what the Group had in mind and may have even helped the Author who created Phillip conjure up the story then when the group began their experiment the Participant Spirit could have taken on the role of Philip and became very real to them.

I of course can't prove that is true but some of the Spirits I know would have gladly participated in something like that.

Some of them are into play acting and some are serious but their primary goal is to get those on Earth to believe in them and their existance in the Spirit World.

Surely, Rosemary, if a spirit participated in the 'Phillip' incident it would be working against the goal of convincing people of the reality of spirits?
The Phillip scenario lends at least as much credibility to human telekinesis as it does to spirits of the dead.

All of this Is a fascinating idea but,
I would be more inclined to simply try and recreate an atmosphere that may conjure up something paranormal,
rather then put the suggestion in the minds of others that something is or may be haunting a site.

Many believe that spirits ARE everywhere, but choose not to make themselves noticed.
Why not use what are "suspected" reasons that some may have experienced the paranormal,
to try and force a Ghost to be seen or heard or whatever.?
After all, this topic is called "Waking the Dead"

I'm all for it!
I'd rather experience it myself than experiment on the others...
And if we are to 'manufacture' a ghost i suggest to stick to environmental history...of course we must choose the place of the experiment first.
It would be more probable to get better results <whether it's a 'local' form of energy that pretends to be our fictional character, or just a collective hallucination>

And...i suggest my GOATY to take care of a proper documentation of the whole experiment that i believe will be strictly scientific...
Oh well...YOU asked for the trouble, DARLING...hehehe


So...the questions are:
where is the experiment going to be conducted? let's vote on the place...
what kind of equipment shall we use?
what method shall we apply in order to make up the story of our 'ghost'...will it be our collective 'child'? <recommended, hehe> or a product of one person's sick mind that we'll choose through voting? <think about it people...do we want to know how Fordo's own story would look like...?>

There has been a couple of references now to 'environments' and 'atmospheres' that might be attractive to ghosts.
Pardon my ignorance, but what does appeal to these ghosties exactly folks?

...talking animals?

Well there seems to be no shortage of those in this family.

Very good point. I think that it would not matter as the invented ghost would be conjured up through our minds and therefore if we were to succeed it wouldn't matter if we were at Disneyworld or someplace else.

Not if the Spirit has ideas of his own and turns the whole situation into his Show and his Story and it takes some unsuspecting turns and he or she decides to turn the whole thing into a Reality Show by climbing into the body of one of the participants and let them tell their story and see if they can get anyone to believe they are possessed by the Spirit of the Dead.

The point I'm trying to make here is sometimes Spirits are bored and adventurous and they see what Earthlings have in mind and sometimes they love to playact and just see what they can get away with and how the Humans will react and deal with a situation.

This is why there are some bad stories associated with Oujia Boards sometimes the operators relatives in the after life are there in the house with them and may have always been there and when they see them playing with the board and making all sorts of remarks about hosts and haunts and may even refer to some of these relatives then the Spirits sometimes take action and turn the situation into a moment to remember.

This is why experienced people who know about these things tell dabblers to be careful and don't start anything you may not want to finish because sometimes when you start a game everyone doesn't fold at the same time.

Dear me...
Iwona, are you sugesting i have a mind that is anything other than healthy and pure?surely no, perhaps i'm mistaken..
And thanks everyone who has thrown in their ideas so far, food for thought...but much work to be done...

So when are we going to get the ball rolling on this 'ere experiment Mistah Fordo? I am keen to be involved

Me too

soon, my little legions of darkness....
it does unfortunately take some planning, and i'll need to bounce a few ideas of the collected brains trust here at gm...
unfortunatly, two of the main collaborators will mostly not be available i believe(something to do with the spring weather i belive,yuck..)
but talk amoungst yourselves in the mean time....

just had an idea,it may give us something to roll with, i was reading an old thread discussing what equipment would be used on a ghost hunt...
so, any ideas what sort of "Equipment" we may require ?(other than a pointy stick for proding Mr Ghostie) in fact, is any of the habitually used gadgets by ghost hunters worth a pinch of *&?????
my theory is that excepting a video camera, and a 35mm, nothing has ever been acheived with the use of other equipment, just very vague results....
but i could be wrong..
So anyone?

Ok....so we still need a place where this experiment is going to be conducted.
Now we also need to have those who are going to do this Investigation....
...man...
wouldn't it be fun if Fordo, Iowona and Greygoat were to do this together..?
whilst the rest of us make suggestions and help conduct the experiment.
Or maybe perhaps even others of us can do our own thing while they're doing the same thing....
maybe with the ouija board... and ask the same questions .

As for equipment , why not use whatever one has available or can get....if only just to make records of ....if nothing else..?
are you/we still wanting to fabricate a story?...this could be a very cool thing here....
.

I suggest that you guys just go to a local cemetary. I've read that the first person ever to be buried in a cemetary is the one chosen to be a "guardian" and watch over the other souls that have been buried until the day when all spirits rise to be judged. Many people have tried this any usually come out with good results, but the oly problem is that its outside. I don't know if it will always work with the guardian, but the cemetary is still a great place to contact with spirits. Ouiji boards are ok to use, but if u have a K-2, EMF detector, thermal camera, or digital recording device, those are great to.

(one 'o' in Iwona is sufficient)

How nice Fordo, Chupa and I get the hot-seat while the rest watch from the sidelines in safety.
Besides, Chupa an I may be busy.....

Iwona ...Iwona ... alright already...I'll start calling her Chupa too....sheesh...

Sorry, Sammy - I'm just overly sensitive where my nemesis in concerned.

I can tell your from the first hand knowledge I have gathered through my Spirit Communication there are no Guardians in the Cemetery to watch over the other souls that have been buried until the day when all spirits rise to be judged.

When a body dies, the Spirit with all its intelligence and memories good and bad leave the body and goes to the Spirit World otherwise known as heaven and or the World Beyond.

The empty body goes to the Cramatory or the Graveyard and is nothing but an empty vessel which held the spirit while it was on Earth.

Another thing I know which I have learned from the Spirits is the Intelligence part of the brain which holds memories from this life and other lifetimes goes back to the Spirit World and the casing for the brain is just another part of an empty vessel.

In the World Beyond Death the Brain with all its intelligence and memories good and bad can now come back and find a channel such as I and other mediums and speak through them and I believe any Human can develop their Psychic abilities and learn how to do Communication communication.

I don't write this to be mean or to appear as a know it all I am writing only what I know and what the Guides are helping me write here through automatic writing because they want the Earthplane to know everything I know about the Spirit World and Spirit Communication and I would think that scientists would be interested in knowing that no matter what they believe about the Human Brain the so called subconscious thoughts they refer to could actually be the thoughts of spirits who channel thoughts through humans sometimes with their knowledge and sometimes without their knowledge.

Having said that I don't doubt if you go to the Cemetery you might come in contact with Spirits who know you are going there to investigate and they tag along and try to help you get pictures and sounds because they want people to believe in the Spirit World and Life After Death because they want to channel through those who are interested.

Well, i only called them Guardians, i don't actually know what they're called, but all i know is that i read in a book of few years ago that claims that the first person to be buried in a cemetary is responisble to watch over the bodies of the others around him/her. Just because someone read something about a topic dosen't mean it not true, nor does it mean that it could be just superstition. I can understand what you mean, and I respect your opinion. I don't believe that your trying to show me up or be mean in any way. I know that you are one of the most intellegent people on this website, and that you usually write valuable information, so no offence is taken Rosemary. I find it to be healthy to have a heated conversation with different opinions once in a while. Good for the mind. I am however glad that you agree that a cemetary is a possible choice for investigating.

Automatic writing you say? Is that how you always write your posts?

Yes everytime I write here someone in the Spirit World joins me here and as I go along thoughts form and whatever they put into my head and through my fingers goes onto the paper.
When I write on a writing pad this becomes more evident because the handwriting changes all the time.

Busy doing what? Okay, okay nevermind...I REALLY don't want to know!

Oh, and ah...watching from the sidelines where ever Fordo is concerned it ALWAYS the safest place!!!!

soo...we should do some planning then...my GOATY's house is definitely the right place to conduct the experiment, but i don't mind to get some practice before.....i'm all for this trip to Melbourne, Fordo-san, the question is when...uhhh hahaha GOATY's right, we're pretty busy...

..oh and Sammy my fiend, you better call me Chupa

What do you mean Cheryl?i really dont understand....i'm perfectly harmless...
and i think its a full moon in about two weeks, so to add atmosphere to ignorance, we could look at then...but it will take tons of planning, I'm pretty busy so i 'll see how it goes, but keep the ideas etc rolling....

ok Chupa....but don't get mad..if I mess up and call you ChupO....lol