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Attempted exorcism ends in man’s death
Police use stun guns on grandfather seen choking 3-year-old girl
The Associated Press
Updated: 7:32 p.m. ET July 29, 2007


PHOENIX - Officers responding to a report of an exorcism on a young girl found her grandfather choking her and used stun guns to subdue the man, who later died, authorities said Sunday.

The 3-year-old girl and her mother, who was also in the room during the struggle between 49-year-old Ronald Marquez and officers, were hospitalized, police said. Their condition was unavailable.

The relative who called police said an exorcism had also been attempted Thursday.

“The purpose was to release demons from this very young child,” said Sgt. Joel Tranter.

Officers arrived at the house Saturday and entered when they heard screaming coming from a bedroom, Tranter said.

Naked woman seen chanting
A bed had been pushed up against the door; the officers pushed it open a few inches and saw Marquez choking his bloodied granddaughter, who was crying in pain and gasping, Tranter said.

A bloody, naked 19-year-old woman who police later determined to be Marquez’s daughter and the girl’s mother was in the room, chanting “something that was religious in nature,” Tranter said.

The officers forced open the door enough for one to enter, leading to a struggle in which an officer used a stun gun on Marquez, Tranter said.

Mother may be charged
After the initial stun had no visible effect, another officer squeezed into the room and stunned him. The girl was freed and passed through the door to the relative, Tranter said.

Marquez was placed in handcuffs after a struggle with officers and initially appeared normal, but then stopped breathing, Tranter said. He could not be revived and was pronounced dead at a hospital.

Tranter declined to identify Marquez’s daughter and granddaughter but said they lived in the house with Marquez.

The mother was not arrested, but police will consider criminal charges, Tranter said.

There was no phone listing at Ronald Marquez’s address.


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That poor kid
Kinda reminds me of Stephen Kings book Carrie

OMG, that kid is gonna have nightmares for along time.
I wonder what led them to do that.
I hope that kid doesn't turn out like Carrie
: (

That's crazy madness guys.
Psychologically irreversible.

Poor kid, probably going to have nightmares about it her entire life.

What a strange incident.
The child may possibly repress this memory, but that could turn bad too.
Can't waite to see what Rosemary has to say about this.

I did read that Story.

The most troubling thing to me here is we have a grandfather who is trying to choke the devil out of a three year old child.

Why?
She may have been a child who was very willful and he may have been a man who insisted on unquestionably obedience and if he had some religious training like some do who use the bible against others he may have been trying to beat the devil out of a child who behaved like many three year olds do.

In the Story there was something that was much more troubling to me and that is the Story said the mother was naked.

Now why was the mother naked in the same room as her father who was abusing the child?

Is it possible this man may have been sexually abusing both the child and the mother and he began to blame them for what he was doing and began to think of them as Jezebeels who tempt men like is written in the Bible.

I personally would not look on this as a Possession but something that is wrong with the thinking of this man who would try to choke the devil out of the child while the mother of the child is naked in the same room.

This story needs to be analyzed a lot further to see just what was going on here.

geez, i'm horrified
i suppose the family was involved in some kind of sect,
this would explain why the man tried to perform exorcism himself,
but then again, what kind of exorcist helps a person by choking her...?

EDIT: it's also a good point of view, Rosemary, i'm pretty sure the man and the mother were both having mental disorder of some kind,
this is just not normal, what happened there

I can't believe that the mother was not arrested. She was a willing participant in a horrific child abuse situation! Unbelievable. My heart just breaks for that poor child.

Very good point Rosemary.
The grandfather could have been sexually abusing the mother and or child.
So he thought, "well, where are these thoughts coming from?"
and the child, acting like any normal, hyper three-year-old,
was targeted as the scapegoat for being possesed...
something to think about.

GOOD Response Rosemary...
totally the other way from where i thought you might go.
And I thought the mother being nude with blood all over her was strange...
< well the Real me thought that.......but that Ghoul SammyTerry...>

Rosemary, you seem to have changed a bit with your responses lately...
I'm keeping my eye on you...

Hannity & Colmes on Fox News recently covered this story and interviewed 2 catholic priests concerning exorcism. Here's the interview if anyone's interested. It's a little over 4 minutes long.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3UMNlrIC_0

That was a very intresting clip.
I wish they could have had more time
damn TV restrictions!!!

I really haven't changed at all, while I am telling my possession story I still don't fall for all of these things being written if I don't believe them.

And while I believe in Spirit Possessions and I have seen the things they write and say in the movies I know from my experience that humans who have spirits sitting inside their bodies do not vomit green slim or do terrible things with Crucifixes and roll around on the floor with their eyes rolling back in their heads.

In fact if anyone saw me or spent time with me I would be acting just like a normal person, the only difference is while I am acting normal the four Spirits inside my body would be saying ugly things to me and be causing me great pain and I would not show this but have to deal with them in Private later.

But even after writing this I have to remember back when this first started and the terrible things these spirits said and threatened to do tome or cause me to do to others had me so terrified I'm sure back then I might have been displaying irriational behaviour as I tried tog et people to believe but as time went on and no one much believed I settled down and decided what these four wanted me to do was to behave in a crazy fashion so they could laugh and get away with this so I decided much like an Actor I had to appear calm and not be afraid and after a while thats exactly how people see me.

Now the tide has been turned and these four are trapped inside my body afraid to leave it because they have no idea what lies higher in the Spirit World and they have no idea whether the Spirit who claims to have the power to destroy them really can or whether he is just bluffing in an effort to force them from my body.

Rosemary, Dear..
I didn't say You changed...I said your responses seem to have changed.
Its good to see you comment on something...with logical suggestions and inquiries
without mentioning being possessed....just giving your comments like everybody else here.
Now you seem....more ..i guess.."Personal"..for lack of a better word.

I for one DO believe in such a thing as "Spirit Possession"
and as i have said Many a time before ...like many others, I wish you could find the true help you desire,
But you DO.. seem to have some kind of control..able to co-insist with the spirits inside of you
and as You have Said ...live a somewhat normal life.....like the rest of us.

I guess I'm saying...that if you..just be yourself..
and comment when you have something to add
<while trying to keep the others inside you at bay>
and maybe.....i dunno.....have a little...Fun..!? ..like the majority of us do!!
you might see the support and compassion...we "GM'ers" truly have for you.

Couldn't have said it better myself Sammy!

Rose is right, the mother was naked. But why? Last I checked, she would have no reason to be.

that's why I hate religion.. they put children's lives at stake for their own cause..

I will try not to talk about what is happening to me as much.
And so I won't say again my writing and my mood of course is controlled somewhat by trying to appear normal while dealing with the pain and frustration of the brutal attacks and what appears to me to be a lack of Godly control over my sitaution.

take some advil or some pills to ease the pain rose.. you always have headaches

The problem as I see it isn't the bible which causes these problems as it is various peoples interpretation of the teachings and their reaction to it.

There are many good kind people who believe in the Bible and the teachings of church and there are some people who are just plain ignorant and interpret everything in their own way.

In my opinion the bible should be read like any book written by Mortals and there should be nothing in the bible which should cause people to behave in a violent way towards others anymore than say Harry Potter should influence a whole generation of Sorcerors, as some religious people believe.

Both books were authoried by humans who put their own spin on the story and we should follow only the good in both books that brings no pain or suffering or oppression to our fellow man.

Good point Rose, I totally agree with you there!

rose, interpretation or not, the bible was written by men, please get that through your head, Jesus was NO holy man, hell, chris angel is far more of a "miraculous man" than jesus could ever be, yet he's a magitian, rose wake up, look what religion does to people!

Well whatever you say and whatever I say there is one thing I know for certain.

Jesus was right when he said there is everlasting life.

Although I cannot prove it at this time, I know when a person dies on Earth their Spirit with all its intelligence leaves their body and goes to live on in the World Beyond Earth and this is Everlasting Life but we can I suppose prove that only when we one day wake up in the After Life and learn this from first hand experience.

Its very difficult to get Earthklings to believe that Psychics can communicate with Spirit and know these things and I suppose it can become believable only when one has experienced these things oneself.

Rose, philosophers hundreds of years before jesus had already said there is life after death, and no you can't prove there is life after death but we all know there is, not because jesus said it, but because most of us have had experiences of some kind that's got to do with forces outside of bodies, invisible forces, that's life, and rose... stop adoring men.. no man was ever perfect..

Alot of people believe in Jesus and the Bible. Alot of people don't.

People who believe think that people who don't believe are wrong for not believing.

People who don't believe think that people who believe are wrong for believing.

We can try to make people see our own beliefs as the "right" way to think... but this probably isn't the place for it. So maybe it's best for now to respect each others opinion and agree to disagree?

I already did that long ago, with everyone else, except for the G-M users who try to get me to believe stuff then I try to get them to believe stuff as well, as an exchange of knowledge, and this is between me and rosie, I'm not trying to make YOU believe something am I luna?

If it's between you and Rosemary then maybe you should take it to her PM instead of a public thread.

it's between me and rose and whoever wants in to start a debate, debates are made for the sole purpose of getting into a conclusion that would lead to a nice relationship or what not, plus, rosemary and I are NOT breaking any rules, and just as fordo and rose take it seriously and sometimes offend each other, I respect rosemary now as she respects me, and just as you should have told me what you just said right now on a private message but decided to say it here for all to see not noticing that you contradicted your own "temporary theory on how to treat a thread at g-m" I'd say it's now between me and you a small time senseless argument which has nothing to do with the thread, I like rosemary cause she's quite knowledged about a lot of things, although there's some things that she believes in FAR too much, I never meant to disrespect, so don't try to defend what's not being attacked luna.

Fair enough, but I'm not sitting here saying that this conversation is just between you and me. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who has an opinion can voice it. Hence why this isn't in your PM. I'm all for debate, all I'm saying is this thread isn't the place for what you're debating. I'm not trying to say that either of you are breaking any rules, and I'm not saying I have a theory on how to treat threads at GM. If you would like to start your own thread about whether or not Jesus existed, or what the Bible is/means, by all means do so. But when I find something in my own thread going off topic and getting offensive, to me, sorry, I'm going to say something.

I'm not saying either of you are wrong... but it's just getting a bit nasty... and to what end?

lol luna you're cute , this isn't getting nasty this is fun, learning from others =) and this isn't your thread lol, it's everyone's, actually, it's saruman's, but anyway back on topic, a 3 year old girl seeing her mom naked must be quite annoying, and why wasn't the mom charged with anything? I mean if I came in a room to find my wife and her father doing crazy stuff like that to my daughter i'd send'em both to prison for molesting her

I'm sorry if I caused dissention on this thread or this board.

I am not trying to preach to anyone about the Bible or anything and in fact my comments on the man who did the Exorcism was merely to say some of the beliefs that people have cause some people like him to try to beat or force demons from people when they are not equipped to deal with it.

But having said that I know from Personal Experience that Spirits of the Dead can actually enter the Physical body of a Human and cause them much pain and wreck havoc with their lives and when that happens few priests or deliverance ministers will get involved or try to help and when that happens sometimes people who don't know what they are doing will do these things and sometimes people get hurt.

Having said that I believe this man may have been a religious man who was dealing with an unruly rumbunctious child and he believed that She was demonized and behaved as he did.

I on the other hand do have a problem with unruly spirits of humans I have known when they walked the Earth and I have tried everything I can to free myself of them, but personally I am afraid to have inexperienced people deal with the situation even if they would after what has happened in other cases and even in the case of the Girl anallesse where the Priest and the Parents starved her to death and she died much like an anorexic did.

I have decided I am not going to tell my Possession Story anymore because no one believes it and frankly I believe the reactions to my story is just causing the Evil Spirits to believe they are in control and its not solving anything.

Hopefully one day more people will have experiences like mine and then people will believe more and then perhaps the priests who have been trained at the vatican will be more open to helping people when they ask for help and not put them through all the tests they have.

My Spirits for example don't talk in a foreign dialect and I don't display brute strength as the Preists seem to require in order for them to help someone like me.

And as for the Spirits who have convinced me they are God and Jesus although they have given me helpful Information and they state one day they will be waiting for the Spirits when they leave my dead body I have told them again this morning a lot of good that will do me then, because by then no one will be here to tell the World what is the Real Truth about the Power of God and Jesus and so if they want to keep the world believing how Powerful they are they might as well step in now and help me instead of just making threats and promises towards the four possessing spirits because its not doing any good at all.

I agree that it was probably the normal unruly behavior of the child that set him off on his exorcism tangent.

I want to apologize if I've made you or anyone else feel like it's wrong to express your beliefs or feelings. That wasn't my intent, and I'm sorry if I expressed myself in a rude way.

I didn't intend to preach about going off topic in threads, I'm as guilty of that as anyone. It's only that I feel frustrated sometimes when I go to read a topic that I'm interested in, in the hopes of reading a debate about that topic, only to find the same debate going on in 1/2 the topics I click on.

There's nothing wrong with discussing your beliefs Rosemary, whether anyone believes them or not. There's nothing wrong with debating them either. I only wish we could do it in just one thread instead all over the place.

Anyways, I'll just be over here keeping my big trap shut about it from here on out Sorry if I caused offence.

No need to apologize, Luna. You were not rude nor offensive in the slightest.

i hate how little kids get involved in violent situations such as these.....they are too young.

True true Luna,
If only I was awake at that time.
I agreed with you.

Well said Luna.

it's alright rose you know I kind of admire you you're very knowledgeable of MANY things, I simply don't like the side of you that believes in certain things WAY too much but, are you like a scientist? or a chemist ?

No I'm not a scientist or a chemist.

When I write here spirits in the Spirit World and the four inside me join me here and they add their too cents worth to the copy and sometimes they sound condescending and talk down to people and put words in that cause people to react to the writing in a negative way then once they get the people riled up they turn their kind face around and talk to them in a nice way.

Quite often I will go back later and read what was said after someone complains and I will immediately know that I am not the one writing that.

There is a source I know as the Akaskic records who has given me information for Medical Research and all sorts of things including detective solving but the four inside my body have begun attacking me so brutally its now hard for me to sit calmly and gather that kind of information and so its become even more important that I try to drive them from my body and my home so I can work in peace.

I want to help with things like Cancer research and all sorts of things and they are here to prevent me from reaching my Guide in the Spirit World who can help.

911 tapes show alarmed family in exorcism case
Jordan LaPier
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 14, 2007 12:00 AM


Ronald Marquez and his 19-year-old daughter believed they were communicating with God and deceased relatives before they performed what family members described as an exorcism on Marquez's young granddaughter, according to 911 tapes obtained Monday. Family members called police three times in a one-hour span on July 28.

Officers arrived at the home near 24th Street and McDowell Road in Phoenix, and said they found Marquez holding his 3-year-old granddaughter in a headlock. As Marquez choked his bloodied granddaughter, the girl's mother, naked and bloody, looked on, chanted and held a religious picture, police said.

Officers stunned Marquez, 48, with a Taser and he later died at a nearby hospital.

In the first 911 call to police, at 6:22 a.m., the family told of unusual happenings in the household.

"She thinks she is some kind of an angel, that God sent her," Marquez's sister said of the toddler's mother in the first 911 call.

In another 911 call, Marquez's brother told a dispatcher that Marquez's daughter had seen God and her great-grandmother, dead 14 years, "in the backyard sitting right next to her."

Marquez and his daughter had told family members that deceased relatives were urging them to rid the house of devils, Marquez's brother said.

"They're putting circles around (my mother's) doors, throwing all her shampoos away, all the stuff on the walls they're throwing away, saying it's the devil's stuff," Marquez's brother told a dispatcher.

Marquez's brother said his niece injured her head in a car accident a week before, but refused to take prescribed medication.

"Now that his daughter has gone into another world, he's (Marquez) like, following her," the brother said. "He's following her, whatever she does. She walks around at night with a robe, blessing houses and stuff like that."

When Marquez's brother tried to approach the room where the exorcism was taking place, he said Marquez shouted at him in an "evil voice," a "voice I never heard before to 'get out of here, get out of here, get out of here!' "

He said he heard his brother yelling: "Cry, cry."

During about 20 minutes of recorded 911 conversations, Marquez's sister made the only clear mention that it was Marquez's granddaughter involved in the exorcism. "She's in there screaming and crying like she's scared, like she don't know what's going on," she said.

In the final call to 911, the brother said Marquez was getting worse.

"She needs help. Both of them do," he said. "I don't know what's going on in there but I hope he's OK."

The child received medical treatment and was placed in protective custody.

Police have not released the identity of the 19-year-old mother, who is hospitalized. It is not known whether police will charge her with a crime.
SOURCE
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Thank you, Luna!
it casted some more light on this case...uh, these people are obviously mentally ill...both deceased Marguez and the mother of this poor child...
i feel very sorry for this little girl...she will suffer from a trauma, i have to say it
it's very sad...

The Average person would believe these people are mentally ill and they may be behaving as such because they are upset by what was happening to them, in their seeing relatives and some of the realtives may have been telling them these things from beyond the Veil of Death.

Dealing with the Spirits of the Dead, when some of the Spirits of the Dead are unhappy and vengeful can be one of the most frightening things that could ever happen to anyone.

This is why I have been writing in the thread I began about my three Realtives and Dr. P. doing this to me believing if I told my story and what has happened since this began and how I am dealing with it could help people understand that these things can happen to Humans and when they do they don't know how to deal with it and they begin acting so called crazy like these people did as they try to deal with these things and either get rid of the Spirits of the dead bothering them or in some cases they may be so terribied of those Spirits that they actually try to carry out their wishes as these people did.

Now this Martinez man has been killed and his Spirit has joined the spirits of the others in the After Life who were causing problems in this family in the First Place so unless people become better educated as to how these things are they will never be able to deal with a situation like this and no one will believe or help.

These people should have had priests in the home trying to help them understand and deal with this situation.

After reading this update on this story and the way the people were behaving I have no doubt that they were receiving Psychic Information from those beyond the Veil of Death and like most people they didn't know how to deal with it and so tragedy ensued.

The problem is there is too much fantasy out there about Angels and Demons and not the right kind of Information and when something like this happens or as I have written in my thread: "Do you Believe In Spirit Possession" the average person doesn't know how to deal with it.

Everyone doesn't suddenly turn into angels when they die, their Spirit goes to the After Life and in many cases they remain just ordinary and sometimes troubled souls as they may have been when they walked the Earth.

I am trying to educate others as to the Real truth about the After Life so they will better know how to deal with it and not be a Lamb in the woods like I was when I first began dealing with three of my Vengful realtives and Dr. P. in the after life who set out to make my Life Miserable but the one good thing that has come out of my sitaution is I know the truth now and I am better able to understand what happened to the Family in this Tragic Situation.

The average person would believe these people are mentally ill because they ARE mentally ill! This is normal for you? You really think this is normal???!!! That they were all receiving psychic info and torturing a 3 year old. Really? You think so? I am beyond disturbed that this is normal behavior for you.

I think you about covered it Cheryl. I dont have much to add other than the reference to the average person. As if we are just mere mortals. lol

I am just stating what I know can happen when someone has to deal with a mean unruly spirit who is out to cause problems for someone.

In reading the second part of that Story it says that the woman had been seeing some of her relatives and that some spirits were asking them to do certain things.

It said they had been running around trying to do what the Spirits asked and things went from bad to worse and that is exactly what happens in a case like this.

In fact someone without experience might even be afraid of a nice ghost just appearing to them because as we know most people are afraid of those who have died and call them ghosts and haunts and the like.

In my opinion these people may have been experiencing some of the same things that many possessed people do and trying to get someone to believe these things is not easy.

One of the main reasons that no one much believes is they have been brainwashed to believe that everyone who dies suddenly zips up to heaven and are blissfully happy but that is not always the case, depending on how someone dies and what they see as they look back at earth that might displease them sometimes determines the behaviour of the Spirit Beyond the Veil of Death
.
People can hide their head in the sand and say whatever they want to but the fact is these things can happen to others and sometimes it frightens people so badly when they don't know how to solve this problem that they may appear in a very abnormal way to the general public and its usually caused by fright and the fear of the dead and so called Demons.