Another good article that brings in old faiths and tries to detail modern images etc... This guy has some pretty strong opinions about our definitions of ghosts and demons... thought you might all enjoy it!

Give it a go... what do you think?

Thanks!

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I just can’t stand it any longer! Demons, demons, demons. Demons everywhere; under every bed sheet and in every closet.

What serious, educated and "non-delusional" investigators-researchers see as angryearthbound human spirits, (ghosts) " delusional and religiously brainwashed holy rollers " see as inhuman demonic entities.

Yeah right, maybe in the movie theaters but NOT in reality.

I find it fascinating in the year 2005 that there are individuals out there who are still buying into the ancient teachings of the Catholic Church. The entire scenario of Satan and demons was created by the ancient church as a means to control their members. " Keep em scared and they’ll behave " was their motto.

Apparently, some are still buying into that nonsense.

Today there are these so called and self proclaimed "Demonologists" that are running around with various Ghost Hunting groups trying to get attention and draw attention to themselves by seeing demons everywhere. Whereas I see nothing more than a pissed off angry ghost trying to get a message across, they see Pazuzu ( the demon that possessed Regan in " The Exorcist " ) flying around wreaking spiritual havoc.

If you study and research the origins of Satan and the Devil back to the original Aramaic texts, ( long before the subsequent translations in Hebrew, Greek and many others ) you’ll see that all references to Hell and some mystical evil spirit creature were in reality misunderstood idioms that were commonly used in Aramaic speaking middle eastern countries of the time. That right there destroys the entire argument over the existence of a king devil and his subordinate demon helpers.

The only spirits hanging around haunting various locations are those of human beings that have died and either don’t realize they are dead or have made the freewill decision to remain earthbound for their own personal reasons.

I haven’t seen a shred of evidence over the actual existence of demons from any of these amateurish ghost hunting groups and their demonology specialists. In my opinion, they are all just a bunch of ego driven, publicity seeking" attention whores " trying to get on TV or Radio.

Demons only exist in the movies and I don’t take anybody or any group seriously that believes in that nonsense.............

I am inclined to agree with him. Just recently I saw a program where a grandfather had molested his granddaughter and his excuse was that he was possessed by a demon which caused him to do this. I think that the really "religious" people like to pull the old "possessed by a demon" card rather than take responsibility for their actions, and to that end you have self-described demontologists finding a niche to fill, as well as their wallets. There are so many more unofficially named demontologists taking advantage of people, they're called preachers, ministers, priests, rabbis, etc. Unfortunately, the sheeple go to them every week and hand over their hard-earned pay. But hey, that's just my opinion. If they weren't making money from it, they'd stop.

Personally i like satan, but i dont actually belive in the idea that the masses throw around, nor of god or devil....
I'm not a religious type, i just love Satan, devils, religious concepts are intresting too...they are fun.(or funny depends on my mood)
I also like the cookie monster...
sorry guys...
think i'll go now.....

I meant demonologist, not demontologist!!!

Whoever originally wrote the paragraph that Chase quoted, send me his address, I am gonna buy him a drink! Absolutley priceless! My feelings exactly! I find it funny that although (as already noted) the 'devil' was created as a means to keep people in church, literally though fear and intimidation, people in this day and age actually believe it! (anyone heard of 'Tulpas'?) Take The Warrens for example, they made a lot of publicity (and money, I hasten to add) on being paranormal investigators and alleged 'Demonologists'. How could they sleep at night?

I see this being a long, and very interesting thread

I know isn't the man a sheer genius? Putting the real words that we all think onto paper...

The demon really is a man made invention. Ghosts can exist, and we don't deny that, but hyping up the paranormal with tints of evil and sheer fear removes the fact and replaces it with fiction.

A fiction where the mind, mainly the creative part, gets carried away with its own thoughts regarding what it cannot explain. When you think about all the people who die, how many are really truely evil? These supposed 'demons' are completely manufactured in our own minds.

Think about it logically, when you die, if there is life after death, will you really spend your time throwing clocks and beer bottles across the room? Would, as the writer puts it, you not just stay around for a purpose... eternity is a long time to make a nusance of yourself...

but then again, many people spend their lives making nuisances of them selves....
The idea of "demon" only really seems to hold some sort of truth to me when i look at more primative religions and the concepts they belive...as in "demon" being some sort of elemental being, "good spirits" "bad spirits" etc....
the origin of the word "satan" I belive, was simply meaning "adversary" or "the opposer" thats why islam sometimes refers to those they see as opposing the laws they live by as "satans"...
though medieval concepts of devil (or even the very cool Mr Milton) are very wonderfully romantisized...
I'll dig around in the library and find my book of entemology and get the exact roots, if anyones intrested...
Demon is just another word...like "god" or some such......

Ok, plain and simple


Ghosts-spirits of those who lived before and now are dead, trapped on our world


Demons-entities that are from the so called Hell to reign terror upon the human race

that's a good christian catholic jewish point of view +D

thankz Glam

ever hear of the shinto pov? what is the saying? 3 million gods? not all of then nice?
time to head back to my little library.....
I want a pet demon!!!! (well i actually have three fuzzy devils, but i want a demon!)
there is also great demon storys to be had in things like the icelandic "Eddas" the sumerian "epic of Gilgamesh" etc...
Demons and their lore are not confined to christianity, judaisim or islam...
its just a pity stupid monkey brained hollywood and pop culture has (eerg, excuse the pun) "demonised" supernatural experiance.
I mean, c'mon, if you had to do a screen play for a silly tv series, you need to make it "hard" and tough on the main charecters....so why not demons.
Please Chase and Gigan-sama, dont let your search for evidence and truth be convoluted by the pulp that your tv or hollywood throws at you.surely our minds are greater than the influence of the screen.

oh, and glam,"christian catholic jewish"????????what tha?????

yeah, a nice point of view a christian, a jewish, and a catholic person would a gree on.

Indeed they are, 'The Saga's of Icelanders' is currently on my bedside table...

The media use an easy route when it comes to tales of the supernatural. Every religion has its gods, demons angels and archangels (in whatever guise). Funny though, you don't hear of many Wiccan's getting possessed

I just find it incredible that what is essentially a collection of fables, is taken as literal and that people really do believe that there are the 'fiery pits' where all sinners go, and occasionally a rogue demon decides to come 'up here' and cause problems.

gigan gigan gigan gigan.. I dont know much about wiccans..

Then take a peep at this my friend:

WICCA

that wicca religion seems to be very interesting.. the religion of witches am I right? I liked it

My Suggestion if you are learning how to Communicate with the Spirit World that you should go in with an Open Mind.

Keep in Mind that no one has ever proven anything to the satisfaction of anyone on Earth and we only have the words and the teachings of other Mortals who have walked the Earth and that includes a man called Jesus and the scribes who wrote the Bible.

Now I don't want what I am saying to discredit the Bible or Jesus or anyone else who has walked the Earth who Claims to be talking to God and others in the Spirit Realm all I am saying is keep in mind that everything attributed to them is what they wrote or preached after speaking to the Spirit Realm and nothing then or now is provable beyond a shadow of a doubt.

We know that Jesus preached the word of God and said he is the Channel for God and he and the Scribes are the knowledge that is contained in the Bible and jesus was Murdered and now he is Martyrd and I have no problem with anyone worshiping him and the Bible and anything else they want to believe in and Worship.

Now go a little farther and pick up the Story of Joan of Arc who told the world she is the Channel for God and she could see things and make predictions and she was murdered for her Beliefs.

Come on through time to the Witches of Salem who were just ordinary psychics who could communicate with the World Beyond and people labeled what they did as Witchcraft and they were hanged and burned at the stake by humans who didn't believe or have that Power and the Spirits they were talking to and Channelling for in the after Life seemed to have no way of saving them from those on Earth who sought to kill them for their beliefs which they didn't agree with.

Now come on down through time to myself who has been trying to tell my relatives and anyone who will listen that I have the same Powers as Joan of Arc, and Jesus and the Scribes who wrote the Bible and I have been Channelling for Spirits who tell me they are Jesus, and God and my Realtives and others in the Spirit World and we have been doing this to prove they are alive and anyone I tell the Story to says I am dillussional and there is no Life after Death but that Humans just die and their bodies goes into the Grown and that is all there is to it.

Well if people don't believe me and they don't believe Jesus and they don't believe Joan of Arc and or the Witches of Salem how are they ever going to learn one way or the other what the real truth is unless they learn all they can about communication with the World Beyond and Develop their own Psychic Gifts which i believe everyone has and learn the truth for themselves and if they do that they will learn how hard it was for Jesus, Joan of Arc the Witches of Salem and all the other Psychics at this point in time to cause people to believe what they are saying.

I have found a great Paranormal Research website which anyone interested in the Paranormal might like to visit.

Frankly I believe they have all the answers just as I and others do who know what we do.
The Spirit World and angels and Demons are all around us and we can't even see them and we need to know that they invade our World and watch us all the time and can interact with us and control us and all sorts of things and there may be nothing we can do about it except learn to co-exist.

Following is a great website that will explain some of the things I already know.
Yes my Children Jesus was right there is Everlasting Life and one day you will all know that but I believe everyone should learn as much as they can while they are on Earth about what Lies beyond Earth.
http://www.SpiritualResearchFoundation.org

Where Do Ghosts Exist is one of many topics covered.

When I try to tell the World about the Spirits who have been communicating with me for more than 20 years they say, those aren't who they say they are those are Demons and the Bible clearly teaches us to not to speak to those beyond the Veil of Death and I say if that is true why did we listen to Jesus and the Scribes in their day when they told the World they were channelling for Spirit?

If God truly believed that Earthlings should not deal with those beyond the Veil of Death how as he able to speak through Jesus a man on Earth?

Did God actually tell the Scribes to write into the Bible that we should not deal with those beyond the Veil of Death?

Or did they put their own spin on that after the Experiences they themselves had from their communication with certain Spirits in the Spirit World?

Again I don't want this to argue anyones religion or anything they believe in but I just want to pose a few questions and let everyone think about that and do whatever they want to with that.

Take a look around you, do you believe that God actually wants a war or wants parents to kill their children or spouses to kill each other?

I personally want to keep an open mind and believe what I want to and protect myself from preditors and wrongdoers in all Worlds and look on everything I read and or experience as a learning experience and knowing what I know about Life After Death I am going to live my life as best I can and try to follow the commandmants of do unto others as you would have others do unto you and help my fellow man and do the best I can to live as long and as Healthy as I can and one day when I die and my spirit goes to the After Life I am going to say Hello God, I understand there are a few places I can end up and so show me which path I need to take after doing the best I could on Earth and believing whatever I wanted to about anything, because while down there I had Freedom under the Constitution to believe anything I wanted to and as long as I broke no laws of Man on Earth I am now ready to see what you have in store for me.

As I write many in the Spirit World is writing through me through Automatic Writing and some say yes thats what we wanted to say and some say no its not, and so I'll give the final approval on this since this is my Computer and I will judge what they write and either let it stand or delete it.
I know we get a little long winded but thats the way it is when so many Spirits have one Channel and some want to write godly things and some don't and somehow we will just let this go and let anyone believe whatever they choose to I know in the future thats how I intend to live.
Once you die its hard to find a Channel to let you communciate back to Earth because no much believes in this and so it would be nice if some of you would develop your Psychic Abilities and see if you have any relatives or acquaintenances in the Spirit World who would like to have you work a computer with you to help me and others teach the World there is certainly Life Beyond Earth.
I have concluded that the reason most people on Earth don't believe that Heaven and the Spirit World exists is because they have never known of a Spacecraft who has Collided with heaven so they think because of this it must not be up there but I know differently.

Seems to me that being into religion = getting some kind of unpleasant retribution for it. For all those whose lives have been given in vain, and to the pointless slaughter of thousands of millions in the name of a so called 'god', and people wonder why I am so cynical.

I found your response about not hearing of many Wiccans being possessed interesting. I'm Wiccan and I haven't heard of any other Wiccans being possessed either. Of course, Wiccans do not believe in satan. I went to another forum at www.weavings.co.uk and found a discussion there about possession. If you're interested, go to their sight, click on Pagan & Wiccans forum, then click on Pagan Path and scroll down to demons and possession, just to get a better idea of why you don't hear of Wiccan possessions.

I will tell you, I lived in a house with a great deal of paranormal activity, but neither me, nor my husband ever became possessed, and I feel that if there was ever a situation where there was ample opportunity of being possessed, it was then.

Funny you should mention that, as I have 2 Wiccan friends who have been practicing for many many years. They moved into a house that became virtually uninhabitable because of whatever else was living there, and continued to annoy them right up until the day they moved out, but again, it was only annoyances, no possessions or even a fear of it...

I will have a look at that site, thanks!

I found this to be a very interesting comment:

'I don't believe in the Hell that is fire and brim stone, rather the caotic path we choose in life as being a living hell. I don't believe in Satan, but I belive demons to be the things that are negative in nature that take on their own life force that we let control us.
I believe that if we let something control us enough it can take on it's own energy and posses us with a life of its' own, and that this can be strong enough to be as if we are being possessed by demons. I don't deny demons exist, because I believe we create our own demons, and that it is negative energy that is taking a life of its' own and causing havok in our lives, and we cannot always break loose from our demons. Sometimes it takes an outside force to help us break loose, but ultimately we have to be willing to accept the change, because it is our actions causing the possession.
In this existance there is a balance of good and evil, and we cannot live in this plane without the balance. It is the morphing of energy, and its' existance. I believe energy doesn't dissapear, but that it just changes form, and we ourselves haveing enegy can also take on other forms in life and even death. This to me explaines ghosts, demons, reincarnation, etc. '

Very interesting Gigan.

I hear what you say Frodo, but trust me, I don't let hollywood interfere with my quest . I think hollywood has gone as far as to create and exagerate 'demons'... they existed in culture before films yes but mainly in religion... superstitious old age religions... etc etc...

But I don't think much of their existance... it seems much more likely to me that the word 'demon' has been linked to a evil little red creature with a prong (thanks to hollywood).

I believe demons can exist but not in the physical form, more a metaphorical sense whereby the demon living within someones life is more a dimension of their personality that clashes with the rest of themselves...

I, for one, am a believer in God and Jesus (by the way I would like to say to Rosemary that God did not talk THROUGH Jesus but talked TO.) Anyway, I am in agreement with the lot that religion has been distorted by the masses. Catholics, which was the dominating religion for centuries, can really be a big contributor to this. They went to great lengths to envoke fear upon the people. They admit they have scrolls and will not bring to light what they say (I have a feeling it would go against the man made rules that the Catholics believe and follow.) They have put woman in a bad place, on purpose. Even right down to saying that Mary Magdeline was the prositute (for any one that cares, Jesus saved a prostitute and this story was right before the introduction of Mary Magdeline). They have now in recent years retracted their teaching this and state that Mary Magdeline is not the prostitute. People have made religion into what it is today, as I stated, by making up their own rules and distorting facts to the point where people are now just generally turned off by it making it hard for them to believe. Anyway, the demon issue....Lucifer, as we all know, was absolutly beautiful and held a special place in heaven...yada yada yada, he was cast out with 1/4 of all the angels. So do I think they exist, yes. Do I think they are running rampant possessing people and such, no. I think that is absurd.

Each day I analyze my situation and I discuss this not only with the Possessing Spirits but others in the After life and I have now accussed some of the Guides as using me as a Guinea pig for Research and I believe they may be a part of this whole thing and perhaps they all planned this before they appeared into my life.

They could have chosen me to become a Guinea Pig for Research because they have been watching me for years and they knew I worked behind the scenes in Newspapers since the Sixties, and had a few Short Articles Published and was always writing about all sorts of things except the Paranormal before they appeared and I think they all believed if they could get me interested in developing my Psychic Abilities and have my relatives and Dr. P. appear as a psychiatrist and they all interacted and did these things to me they could cause me to go running through the pages of a Manuscript and see just how others would react to the Story.

I can tell you I am not a Volunteer but I am beginning to analyze everything that has happened to me here and since I can't find anyone else who has been Possessed I believe these possessions and Hauntings are preplanned so they can get as much mileage as they can out of people like me whom they can scare and work with and through and I am not happy with the possessing Relatives and Dr. P., and I am not happy with the Guides either and I have discussed this with them on many Occassions.

These Spirit s have done about everything they can to me over the years, and now I believe its not only the ones who are squatting in my body but the others who have given me lots of good information but they have also claimed to have the power to destroy the others and while this was suppossedly meant to bring them out of my body it has only frightened them and caused them to hide inside my body and not leave because they say they don't know what will happen, but I believe it could be they are just trying to milk this situation for all its worth in order to get people to believe in the After Life.

One of the things I base this on is one of the Guides told me when this all began if I don't do everything he says he will leave and leave me to the hands of my Relatives and Dr. P. and when I got mean and told him to go away he flooded my room with Spirit Forms like a large crowd of Spirits crying and threatening and menacing and telling me if I don't agree to work with the Spirit Gatekeeper he will leave all these Spirits in my home and when I got scared and prayed and asked him to take them away presto immediately he whisked them away.

He still does this to me anytime he feels like it and should I tell him to go away permanently he will just flood my home with Spirits appearing as crowds of people just like you would see at a ballgame or anywhere else and this happens especially when I go into my bedroom and climb into bed and try to go to sleep but if I have not done what this Guide tells me there will be weeping victims of all sorts of clamities milling around in my room and its only when I do what he says that he whiskes them away and tells me he is my Gatekeeper and if I keep writing and get others to believe and help me that he will keep me safe and deal with these four when they leave my body.

He claims now that he never asked them to enter my body and in fact doesn't want them there but he is letting them make their own decision as to what happens to them eventually because he has told them if they refuse to leave my body and are still inside my body when it dies they will all be destryed as Evil Spirits.

I of course can't prove one way or the other whether this is true or not but I do know that Spirits at all Levels both good and bad are very powerful in this situation and I have to be loyal to the ones who say they are part of the God team.

At times I get very frustrated and mean in this sitution and tell them to hell with all of them, and I refuse to turn the Computer on and tell them without me they can't reach Earth no matter what they tell me or do to me but then something will happen and I'll be back on the Comptuer writing with whomever is helping me write this little addition here through automatic writing.

I am now communicating through E-Mails with several Groups of Paranormal Investigators and the correspondences back and fourth are hot and heavy and some say they are thinking about checking this situation out bu so far no one has committed themselves but I have my Fingers Crossed because I am hoping some of the Investigators and Demonologists can get some sort of evidence that this is happening to me and my home.

I am even secretly hoping I think that these possessing Spirits who don't want to be verified will at the last minute sneak out of my body while I am sleeping and go to my Sister and Daughters House and since they don't believe anything I have told them, perhaps these spirits could convince them that this is happening.

I also want to learn one way or the other whether a Higher Power could stop them from doing this or could they actually make it to my Relatives homes and take over their bodies if they wanted to just to make believers out of them?

My Relatives are the type that talks to them on a Ouijia Board when I visit them but they refuse to believe they are speaking to them from inside my body and say they know this is not true because when they talk to them they are so nice and they told them personally not to believe me because they know they would not behave this way and I am only trying to turn them against them.

So was this a Plannned Possession?
And or am I only a Guinea Pig that the Spirit World is using for Research Purposes?
Only time will tell.

GRRRAAHHHGGG!!!! (sound of a demon in dire frustration )...Master Chase.....its FORDO not fro-bleedin-do, not hobbit, bobbit nor rabbit....
ahem, excuse me, i digress...
exactly, but i like the little fellow with the prong and horns..(actually, i shouldnt have said that it sounds unfortuantely wrong..for reasons i'd rather not explain here children)
but i gets ya bloke, and as i say, demon is just word, like monster...and there has been a few human monsters around...defined by action and intent rather than appearance....(politicians are a good example of real demons...nasty sly entitys that destroy our lives)rant rant rant......

note, maybe being open to possesion is like getting pulled into any sort of ideology that can alter your behaviour or way of thinking...?
perhaps it takes a certain susceptability to be possesed? like falling for the beliefs of certian religions or cults....
anyone have more to add?
I'm certain no wiccan would be possesed because their beliefs are about enpowerment.....i think you need to be susceptable to an influence before it can take hold of you.(influence could be taken in broad terms...peer presure, churches, demons, football teams...drugs, booze)

LMAO! Sorry dude FORDO not FRODO its some kind of selective dyslexia im sure I'll be good from now on I promise...

I gotta agree with you one thing though... its all about susceptibility and how sensitive people are to the environment and surroundings around them....

I don't want to jinx this by talking about it prematurely, but I have a tentative date later this month with some Paranormal Investigators who plan on visiting me to check my situation out.

I have never dealt with such and am not sure what to Expect but am hoping they can pick up some Spirit Activity with the equipment they use.

I have also asked some of the Guides to help by appearing and performing for the cameras and equipment while the Investigators are here and see what activity they can pick up.

I am not sure if anyone in the past has discussed these things with the Spirits and discussed their appearing and performing during the Investigation so we will just have to wait and see how that turns out.

I am hoping to get something to prove something.
I have tried ex-rays in the past and saw a shadow which I believed to be Spirit but the Doctor said no its just a shadow so I didn't even bother to get a copy of the film.

Another time I had a full body scan with four Spirits inside my body and nothing showed up on that and so of course I am now waiting to see what can be proven about this house and my situation with cameras and whatever Ghost Investigators use.

Well, keep us up to speed on the situation Rosemary, and maybe you could get some pictures or something up here to share with the rest of us. Good luck!

PMSL!

I look forward to your findings rosemary!