79 replies to this topic

[Chase]

Very curious similarity Master... When was The Scream painted?

[{MoG} Blue Screen of Death]

1893 by Edvard Munch

[Chase]

Thank you Mr Art historian! . . There is a slight similarity yes!

[Matt]

I've been fascinated by the Newby Church photo for years and I always thought that it indeed looked fake, despite what experts had said. I actually find the picture more creepy now, as an adult.. . I visited Newby Church in the summer, it is located around 3 miles south of Ripon. The church is in the grounds of Newby Hall and its full name is The Church of Christ The Consoler. I've read about the church's history- the Lady of the Manor had the church built in the 1870s in memory of her son who was killed in Greece. If the ghost is of her son, though, this doesn't explain why his face is covered.. . I took nearly a whole black and white film in the church, but, sadly, nothing showed on the altar photo. It felt really creepy standing near the altar! I've also thought that the ghost could be a leper, because of the covered face- there was actually a leper hospital at Ripon, but I've searched the Internet for ages and found no evidence of leper graves being on what is now the site of Newby Church. Perhaps a leper might have died on the site on his way to Ripon, though?. . I can't figure out why the ghost is nine feet tall...this is weird.

[Gigan]

I've been fascinated by the Newby Church photo for years and I always thought that it indeed looked fake, despite what experts had said. I actually find the picture more creepy now, as an adult...I visited Newby Church in the summer, it is located around 3 miles south of Ripon. The church is in the grounds of Newby Hall and its full name is The Church of Christ The Consoler. I've read about the church's history- the Lady of the Manor had the church built in the 1870s in memory of her son who was killed in Greece. If the ghost is of her son, though, this doesn't explain why his face is covered...I took nearly a whole black and white film in the church, but, sadly, nothing showed on the altar photo. It felt really creepy standing near the altar! I've also thought that the ghost could be a leper, because of the covered face- there was actually a leper hospital at Ripon, but I've searched the Internet for ages and found no evidence of leper graves being on what is now the site of Newby Church. Perhaps a leper might have died on the site on his way to Ripon, though?..I can't figure out why the ghost is nine feet tall...this is weird.

..Wow! thanks for the info Matt! welcome to the group too! ..I have always been intrigued by this image, and am very grateful for the info you offered up ..Who mentioned the phantom was nine feet tall, or are you going by the height of the altar? I would love to see some present day pictures, if you still have them!

[Matt]

Hi Gigan,. . I'm pleased that you're really fascinated by the Newby Church photo as well! Would you like me to scan the pictures and post them on the forum, or would you prefer me to E-mail them? . . It's quite well known that the ghost is around nine feet tall- even the book I had when I was a kid stated this. People studying the photo have worked out, by measuring objects such as the altar rail and windows, that the figure is really this height.. . I've also found conflicting information about the photo. Most websites (and books) state that the vicar was photographing the altar for a local magazine, although one site mentions that he was taking pictures to send to friends after he'd recently taken over the parish.

[Gigan]

Hi Gigan,..I'm pleased that you're really fascinated by the Newby Church photo as well! Would you like me to scan the pictures and post them on the forum, or would you prefer me to E-mail them? ..It's quite well known that the ghost is around nine feet tall- even the book I had when I was a kid stated this. People studying the photo have worked out, by measuring objects such as the altar rail and windows, that the figure is really this height...I've also found conflicting information about the photo. Most websites (and books) state that the vicar was photographing the altar for a local magazine, although one site mentions that he was taking pictures to send to friends after he'd recently taken over the parish.

.awesome!..I think everyone here would like to see them! thank you so much!..I think I remember reading that the vicar was photographing the altar too....

[Sadistic jellyfish of doom]

Hi Gigan,..I'm pleased that you're really fascinated by the Newby Church photo as well! Would you like me to scan the pictures and post them on the forum, or would you prefer me to E-mail them? ..It's quite well known that the ghost is around nine feet tall- even the book I had when I was a kid stated this. People studying the photo have worked out, by measuring objects such as the altar rail and windows, that the figure is really this height...I've also found conflicting information about the photo. Most websites (and books) state that the vicar was photographing the altar for a local magazine, although one site mentions that he was taking pictures to send to friends after he'd recently taken over the parish.

Hey, welcome to GM, Matt. Thanks for the info!

[Chase]

Thats fantastic info... and one very very VERY high ghost... 9ft? Phew!

[Matt]

Sorry about the late reply, I was having a new drive added to my computer yesterday. I'll scan the photos and post them on the forum later. I'm sure you will find the photos fascinating. Newby Church's altar has changed slightly since the 1960s, but almost everything else is more or less the same.. . It has been said in one book I read, quite a recent book, that the ghost has never been seen by anyone and it can't have been photgraphed by anyone else either.

[Matt]

Here is my photo of the famous altar. Sadly not a single hooded, masked figure in sight! I tried to recreate Reverend Lord's position of the original photo, but I found that a wall and gate had been built in front of the altar- I can't see how they would have been here in the 60s as the original picture is taken from slightly further away and shows much more of the steps- I can't see how the vicar would have photographed the steps from the pews as he would be looking over a wall around 3ft.. . It was also very dark in the church as it was an overcast day- I had to leave the church door open as far as I could to get the best light possible. There weren't any working lights in the church- it has been disused for around 15 years, but is now in the care of The Churches Conservation Trust.  Newby_Church_Altar.JPG   242.97K   37 downloads

[Matt]

Hi, I've attached my photos of the exterior of Newby Church and also the pulpit. I'd only got enough room for one photo in my last post. Sorry about the late post, I've had connection problems. I wonder if anyone else has ever attempted to photograph the ghost?  Newby_Church_Pulpit.JPG   217.17K   22 downloads  Newby_Church_Pulpit.JPG   217.17K   22 downloads. . Sorry, I attached the same image twice. I've tried attaching the photo of the church's exterior to another message, but I'm being told that the file is too big...

[Gigan]

Thats great to see a couple of modern day shots. the funny thing is, even though there was no phantom in the altar picture you took, I still saw it! ..It would certainly be a shame to be told this one was a hoax, its such a striking image. I wonder if an actual investigation was done there, it would maybe shed a little light on the story?..Is there any documented evidence with the church other than the one we already know about?

[Chase]

Agreed... thats amazing... Shame theres no ghosts for us eh?

[Matt]

I'm pleased you like the photos. I also "saw" the phantom as soon as I first saw my altar photo. I think we just expect him to be there . I can't find any documented information about the church, there's nothing on the Internet, apart from the information I gave. I had an E-mail from the Ripon Historical Society today who told me that there's no evidence of what was on the site of Newby Church, although I believe that a leper might have died on the site, but not actually have been buried there.. . An investigation would be really interesting, although I'm not sure if people in the area would know. The church is now disused and the vicar in the 1960s, as far as I know, left years before.

[Gigan]

...which just adds to the air of mystery! I love it! I will see what I can dig up about it, and if I find anything out, I will post it here. Thanks for sharing with us Matt!

[Gigan]

I'm pleased you like the photos. I also "saw" the phantom as soon as I first saw my altar photo. I think we just expect him to be there .I can't find any documented information about the church, there's nothing on the Internet, apart from the information I gave. I had an E-mail from the Ripon Historical Society today who told me that there's no evidence of what was on the site of Newby Church, although I believe that a leper might have died on the site, but not actually have been buried there...An investigation would be really interesting, although I'm not sure if people in the area would know. The church is now disused and the vicar in the 1960s, as far as I know, left years before.

.After just a few minutes searching, I came across this transcript from an email that was sent to a paranormal society regarding that picture:.."With regard to the (black and white)monk in the church photo which you claim is a double exposure, in the early 80's I was connected to a team that examined this (and many other) supposedly supernatural photographs for the BBC, and the one thing we decided it wasn't was a double exposure. We used, at the time, the latest in computer enhancement technology and no trickery was detected. We examined about fifteen other famous photographs (including Indre Shira's photo of the Brown Lady in Raynham Hall) and all of them were explicable in decidedly prosaic terms. Furthermore, the photograph is of the complete altar, not just the half with the 'monk' in it. I feel you are doing a diservice to the photograph by presenting it in this truncated form"..Faithfully..Karl Denchly

[Matt]

Hi Gigan,. . This quote is interesting, I'd read it a while ago, I've done loads of searching for further info on the Newby Church photo. This is one of the few sources re analysis of the picture. There is no information about the church other than a few sites that briefly discuss the church's history and why it was built.. . I've seen in quite a few sources that the picture is said not to be a double exposure. I really think that the ghost is a leper, it it is real. I've recently read on the Internet that lepers in the middle ages wore robes simialr to those worn by monks. I think the ghost may be floating in the picture, in its own time period, but doesn't it look like the botton of its robes are resting on the altar step? What does anyone else think?

[Gigan]

Hi Gigan,..This quote is interesting, I'd read it a while ago, I've done loads of searching for further info on the Newby Church photo. This is one of the few sources re analysis of the picture. There is no information about the church other than a few sites that briefly discuss the church's history and why it was built...I've seen in quite a few sources that the picture is said not to be a double exposure. I really think that the ghost is a leper, it it is real. I've recently read on the Internet that lepers in the middle ages wore robes simialr to those worn by monks. I think the ghost may be floating in the picture, in its own time period, but doesn't it look like the botton of its robes are resting on the altar step? What does anyone else think?

.Its an interesting picture thats for sure, and the one thing that always struck me as odd was that the folds of the robe on the floor correspond to the steps.....Maybe if we tackled it from another perspective and see if we can get any information on lepers in history, the garb they would wear etc? *thinks*

[Chase]

Gigan you are nothing short of pure genius sometimes mate! ..Heres a leper picture 14th cent.... so a bit far back but you get the general jist........Check out this blurb too!:...Treatment of lepers in Christian and Islamic Societies:.Although lepers were isolated and treated differently than other members of society in both religious cultures, the medieval treatment of lepers in Islamic society seemed to be less harsh than in Christian societies. There are common religious interpretations in both Christian and Islamic societies regarding leprosy, but the effect of such interpretation appeared to be less " marginalizing" in Islamic societies. In Islamic society, there was little evidence of lepers being required to wear distinctive clothing. The association of lepers with the "unclean" is seen in the popularity of baths as a treatment for leprosy, but this occurred mostly in areas of Christian influence, such as the Crusader states...The Living Dead--a Quasi Religious Status?..There are several interpretations regarding the thirteenth century Mass of Separation, and the Church's view towards the leper. According to Father Martinus Cawley, civil leaders declared lepers legally dead so that they could confiscate the leper's goods; the church expected the spouse to honor the sacramental bond and serve the leper until his/her death. The leper was considered a kind of Nazarite (from the Hebrew Bible, a warrior who has taken special vows), who must be protected by the church. There was a list of garments and utensils that the leper must be given, and each was blessed before the leper received it, much like was done at clerical ordinations. The religious texts in Martene's De Antiquis Ecclesiae Ritubus clearly forbid the incorporation of funeral liturgy. Yet according to R.I. Moore, Lateran III's ritual of separation was clearly modeled on the ritual of the dead, and in many places, the leper was actually required to stand in an open grave while the ritual was read to the accused.