79 replies to this topic

[Gigan]

I have been surfing online, and so far haven't produced anything that looks like our ghost. Having said that, as lepers were regarded as outcasts, its not a far stretch of the imagination to understand that if someone had a disfiguring disease like Leprosy (which can have horrific effects on the face) that the victim would wear clothes that hid them away from the eyes of those who were scared of them. For example, the Elephant Man John Merrick had a disfigured face and covered it thus:...Looks a little similar, does it not?..Maybe our phantom monk, is not really a monk at all, but a spirit of someone who believed that he too could be cured by the Holy...

[Chase]

Indeed Gigan it does look similar.... . Its a shame this ghost is potentially someone who can't escape this disease even in death... Poor ghost man!

[Matt]

I've also been searching for images of lepers and I also haven't come up with any results that resemble the ghost. But I've seen a few sites that refer to Lepers in the middle ages wearing robes similar to Monks' habits. I've also thought of the Elephant Man, I've seen one or two pictures of him before with his face covered, and the covering really does resemble the Newby Church's ghost's face cover. Perhaps the person always prayed for help and his ghost continues to pray- and stood on the site for hundreds of years, continuing to haunt the area after a church was built there in the 1870s. Doesn't anyone think as well that the ghost's shoulders look deformed and very hunched?

[Gigan]

Its funny you should mention that, because I always thought that his shoulders look odd. The evidence (or should I say supposition) is pointing more to the fact that this is not a holy man, but quite possibly someone who even after death wanted to be cured of a disfiguring disease.. . *gets out Sherlock Holmes hat*. . the game is afoot!

[Gigan]

I went and outlined what I could see of our ghostly friend, which shows the shoulders all out or proportion:....I then filled it in as best I could, using a bit of artistic licence, so you couldsee the figure better without the objects behind messing it up. Please bear in mind I only have Microsoft Paint on my computer at work ..I did notice, however, that when I was on a close up of the face, there is a definate ridge down the center of the cowl, which would suggest highlights from the fabric over the nose? I exaggerated it so you could see:....What do you think?

[Matt]

Hi Gigan,. . You've done some really interesting work on the Newby Church picture. I always thought that there was something odd about the ghost's shoulders when I saw the picture years ago, but I've only taken more notice of this in recent years. You're right about the ridge on the face covering, this really does look like the covered nose to me. I was looking in a ghost book in a secondhand bookshop in August (just a week before I visited Newby Church) and it showed a 1970s Brazilian picture of a man dressed as a stereotyped ghost which was taken to promote road safety. His face is covered in a white sheet and his nose could clearly be seen under the sheet in the same way as the mysterious figure in Newby Church.. . I think many people believe him to be a holy man because of the obvious robe, and I don't think that it's widely known that lepers used to be made to wear similar robes. . . I'd also be interested if anyone has heard strange noises inside Newby Church, or felt somehting they couldn't explain. Perhaps some people have experienced a ghostly sensation, but not really mentioned it to many people.

[Memelz33]

I have been surfing online, and so far haven't produced anything that looks like our ghost. Having said that, as lepers were regarded as outcasts, its not a far stretch of the imagination to understand that if someone had a disfiguring disease like Leprosy (which can have horrific effects on the face) that the victim would wear clothes that hid them away from the eyes of those who were scared of them. For example, the Elephant Man John Merrick had a disfigured face and covered it thus:...Looks a little similar, does it not?..Maybe our phantom monk, is not really a monk at all, but a spirit of someone who believed that he too could be cured by the Holy...

..daaaaang, gigan--good call there! Looks a LOT like the covering Merrick wore! wow!

[Matt]

One of the strangest things about the Newby Church ghost, though, is his height. It's been proved by measuring objects in the photo that the ghost is nearly nine feet tall. Other phantoms that have been photographed appear a more "normal" height. I've also never heard of any ghost sightings where the figure has been unusually tall.

[Gigan]

hmmm, that is an interesting point. Unless the spirit is deliberately standing on something to elivate itself, and thats what was captured in death? If he comitted suicide for example, he may have stood on something if he say hung himself. thats the only thing I can think of, other than this is a hoax and thats where the hoaxer slipped up?? :unsure:

[Matt]

This is definately very interesting. As we know, the bottom of the ghost's robe appears to correspond with the altar steps, unless he was actually standing on a stool or something, and his robe just draped down. Unless this famous image is actually a hoax. I'd be very disappointed if it was ever revealed to be fake.

[EgoNemesis]

sorry to parachute myself in here like this...for years i've looked for countless minutes in to a copy of that picture that i first found in a reader's digest book about several paranormal branches....although the book is in no way very deep about the things that they talk about, there's a double page with some of the most known ghost pictures (the brown lady, etc) and this one caught my eye since the very first time. ...besides the obvious scaring fact, at first i thought i was having some kind of opticall illusion (for example, those times you see something and can't shake the feeling that it is one thing, and afterwards you see it's not and can never go back to see the first one no matter how hard you try). in this case i tried countless times to look at it in diferent angles, but couldn't...to me it allways appeared like some type of alien being...well, all this talk to say that i have encountered something rather similar..if you see the very last part of this video:....you'll see what i'm talking about. may not be the same, but there's a scary uncanny resemblance...

[StanTheMan]

Hi all !..I'm new to all this ghost forum stuff, to be honest I don't believe in anything like ghosts, having never actually seen one?! But I'm planning on visiting Newby Church in a few weeks time (I will be taking my camera !!), I just thought I'd check out what people reckon on this one...I have always been intrigued by this photo and it has given me the creeps for well over 20 years, I too, used to deliberately skip the page in the ghost book I had as a kid. I think these books came in a 3 pack, one was about ghosts, the other UFO's, I'm sure there was a 3rd book, but I just can't remember what it was about?!! This is the kind of photo you only have to see once and the image stays with you forever, still scares the crap out of me!..Anyway, this has to be one of the most convincing photos of a ghost ever, as it has stood up to much scrutiny, even though it is a terrific picture I just can't believe it's genuine, but then who knows?! Does anyone know what time of year this was taken? Was it around Halloween by any chance? or was someone putting on an amateur production of some kind?!! I agree that the figure does appear dis-figured and an unusual shape, maybe because they were standing on a wonky chair or stilts perhaps? Although a more sinister side could be that due to their illness maybe they suffered from a growth hormone which caused their huge height, a sign of the devil perhaps... I mean 9-10ft tall?? The tallest ever human Mr Robert Pershing Wadlow was only 8ft 11in when he died in 1940, maybe he is the monk, he was almost exactly the same height?! Who knows, I really wish the mystery could be solved.....http://www.guinnessw...allest_man.aspx

[StanTheMan]

Thought this might be of interest:..Video of Newby Church.....check it out around 1:34, a full colour video of the altar! ..One thing puzzling me is the items/obstacles seen in Matt's photo appear to be missing in this video? As he couldn't get a clear shot of the altar and steps due to the obstructions. Was he in the same church?!

[bathory313]

The specter of Newby Church........just because a photo has been ruled 'not a double exposure' doesn't mean it isn't a hoax. I mean, look at it. It screams I'M FAKE AS A THREE-DOLLAR BILL! The way the gown drapes over the steps, the sufficiently scary melting face. I'll pass. This one will be exposed at some point.

[Matt]

Hi, I haven't been on the forum for ages. I am sorry about not posting anything for such a long time but I have been busy with other commitments, and I haven't had much time to go on forums.. . The Newby Church ghost remains a real mystery. I did indeed visit the same church but I couldn't quite get a photo of the altar at the same postion that the Reverend Lord took his famous photo at. My camera was on a tripod and I realised later that the Reverend Lord must have stood just in front of the gate to the altar and crouched down - this explains the angle of his photo compared to mine and why part of the church floor appears in his photo.. . Not many websites show the complete version of the photo. I am planning on going to Newby Church again in around 2 weeks and hopefully take even better quality photos. The church was very dark when I visited around 5 and a half years ago.. . It such a mystery as to who the ghost is. I still believe that he was a difigured person but there are two nagging mysteries:. . Why is the ghost 9 feet tall?. Why is the ghost standing on the altar step with his robe hanging down? The church was built in the mid-1870s so if the ghost is real, it must be a person who lived in the late 19th century.

[georgek]

If we are to 'read between the lines' of this ghostly monk first picture, it appears superimposed...This was a typical trick, back in the 1960s, by overlaying one picture onto another. By selecting a white background on the superimposed picture, a darkened silhouette in the shape of the monk, could be added to it..The mask does not make sense either, as it is just a face cloth to cover the human attributes of the face...The originator did not intend to cover any disfigurement, but because there was literally no other way of producing a ghost monk, the face had to be obliterated...Otherwise, the person's face could not be identified, that is all!..The dress sense, appears to portray a Cluniac Monk...The Cluniac, are an order from France, in opposition to the Franciscan Monks of Rome. They wore black, and are descended from The Cathars who later formed the Catholics. Whilst one sect believed in reincarnation and were the true practioners of Christianity, the other sect portrayed a 'born into sin' motto who succeeded by inducing fear into mankind, hence building their vast fortunes...I was fortunate to to walk into a ghostly monk, many years ago. (I am not sure who was more shocked....the monk or myself)..We stared at each other, for a good few minutes, until I cycled away like mad!..Once the initial shock subsided, the monk was more confused, as it had glided towards me. It was black and about 6.5 feet tall and it's attire was different to the picture. The hood was box shaped and over sized, covering the nose and mouth...The pictures that we see, are totally incorrect...If we understand the 'deep thought' meditation process, we can understand the amount of thought energies trapped in space and time.

Edited by georgek, 17 April 2012 - 02:29 AM.

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[Matt]

If we are to 'read between the lines' of this ghostly monk first picture, it appears superimposed...This was a typical trick, back in the 1960s, by overlaying one picture onto another. By selecting a white background on the superimposed picture, a darkened silhouette in the shape of the monk, could be added to it..The mask does not make sense either, as it is just a face cloth to cover the human attributes of the face...The originator did not intend to cover any disfigurement, but because there was literally no other way of producing a ghost monk, the face had to be obliterated...Otherwise, the person's face could not be identified, that is all!..The dress sense, appears to portray a Cluniac Monk...The Cluniac, are an order from France, in opposition to the Franciscan Monks of Rome. They wore black, and are descended from The Cathars who later formed the Catholics. Whilst one sect believed in reincarnation and were the true practioners of Christianity, the other sect portrayed a 'born into sin' motto who succeeded by inducing fear into mankind, hence building their vast fortunes...I was fortunate to to walk into a ghostly monk, many years ago. (I am not sure who was more shocked....the monk or myself)..We stared at each other, for a good few minutes, until I cycled away like mad!..Once the initial shock subsided, the monk was more confused, as it had glided towards me. It was black and about 6.5 feet tall and it's attire was different to the picture. The hood was box shaped and over sized, covering the nose and mouth...The pictures that we see, are totally incorrect...If we understand the 'deep thought' meditation process, we can understand the amount of thought energies trapped in space and time..

..I know that the ghostly monk, if he is indeed a monk, looks fake, but the photo has been thoroughly examined, as well as the negative and no trace of fakery was found and even double exposure was ruled out. However, there are some things I just don't get about the picture - especially the ghost's size - unless the photographer cleverly faked the photo and used a way of faking that couldn't be detected.

[georgek]

I know that the ghostly monk, if he is indeed a monk, looks fake, but the photo has been thoroughly examined, as well as the negative and no trace of fakery was found and even double exposure was ruled out. However, there are some things I just don't get about the picture - especially the ghost's size - unless the photographer cleverly faked the photo and used a way of faking that couldn't be detected..

.If I am correct; this picture is copyright with The Fortean Picture Library?..I spoke to Janet on a few occasions, especially regarding my own ghost picture which we both have copyright..The impression that I get from Janet, is that the Fortean Picture Library is after impact and sensation...My picture happened to fit this; and that was all that mattered!..I did ask about my picture, and she said that it was studied by experts who decided its authenticity by the shadow detail...However, I believe that there are other pictures in the library, including The Cottingham fairies? Again, these were very lucid and impacting, through clarity. It was later discovered that they were faked and were produced by cut outs!..The old pictures seems to die hard, and there might be a large amount of sentimentality attached?..Certainly mine was not faked, but if I tried to promote my picture today, it would get hardly a second glance!..The experts, who evaluated the ghostly monk, is probably dead by now; but as you say.....there are a lot of things about the picture which is out of proportion and the superimposition?..I have seen may ghost pictures, and after a time, they have this certain common quality about them, which cannot be found in this one...Ghostly monks are the easiest to fake, because of the background...By having someone dressed in white robes, against a black background and then making a reversal transparency in b/w, two negatives could then be placed on top of each other in the enlarger and the positive developed.

Edited by georgek, 10 May 2012 - 02:12 AM.

[Matt]

If I am correct; this picture is copyright with The Fortean Picture Library?..I spoke to Janet on a few occasions, especially regarding my own ghost picture which we both have copyright..The impression that I get from Janet, is that the Fortean Picture Library is after impact and sensation...My picture happened to fit this; and that was all that mattered!..I did ask about my picture, and she said that it was studied by experts who decided its authenticity by the shadow detail...However, I believe that there are other pictures in the library, including The Cottingham fairies? Again, these were very lucid and impacting, through clarity. It was later discovered that they were faked and were produced by cut outs!..The old pictures seems to die hard, and there might be a large amount of sentimentality attached?..Certainly mine was not faked, but if I tried to promote my picture today, it would get hardly a second glance!..The experts, who evaluated the ghostly monk, is probably dead by now; but as you say.....there are a lot of things about the picture which is out of proportion and the superimposition?..I have seen may ghost pictures, and after a time, they have this certain common quality about them, which cannot be found in this one...Ghostly monks are the easiest to fake, because of the background...By having someone dressed in white robes, against a black background and then making a reversal transparency in b/w, two negatives could then be placed on top of each other in the enlarger and the positive developed..

..It is interesting to hear that the Fortean Picture Library are after impact and sensation. I agree with what you said about the Newby Church ghost, how the figure looks out of proportion. If the two negatives were placed on top of each other, would this have been able to be detected when the film was examined? I know the ghost looks fake, but all sources insist that the film was throughly examined and no traces of fakery were found.