[Lily of the Lake]

Rosemary, on Aug 3 2007, 03:39 AM, said:

The problem as I see it isn't the bible which causes these problems as it is various peoples interpretation of the teachings and their reaction to it.

There are many good kind people who believe in the Bible and the teachings of church and there are some people who are just plain ignorant and interpret everything in their own way.

In my opinion the bible should be read like any book written by Mortals and there should be nothing in the bible which should cause people to behave in a violent way towards others anymore than say Harry Potter should influence a whole generation of Sorcerors, as some religious people believe.

Both books were authoried by humans who put their own spin on the story and we should follow only the good in both books that brings no pain or suffering or oppression to our fellow man.

Good point Rose, I totally agree with you there!

[Zeus]

Rosemary, on Aug 3 2007, 03:39 AM, said:

The problem as I see it isn't the bible which causes these problems as it is various peoples interpretation of the teachings and their reaction to it.

There are many good kind people who believe in the Bible and the teachings of church and there are some people who are just plain ignorant and interpret everything in their own way.

In my opinion the bible should be read like any book written by Mortals and there should be nothing in the bible which should cause people to behave in a violent way towards others anymore than say Harry Potter should influence a whole generation of Sorcerors, as some religious people believe.

Both books were authoried by humans who put their own spin on the story and we should follow only the good in both books that brings no pain or suffering or oppression to our fellow man.

rose, interpretation or not, the bible was written by men, please get that through your head, Jesus was NO holy man, hell, chris angel is far more of a "miraculous man" than jesus could ever be, yet he's a magitian, rose wake up, look what religion does to people!

[Rosemary]

Well whatever you say and whatever I say there is one thing I know for certain.

Jesus was right when he said there is everlasting life.

Although I cannot prove it at this time, I know when a person dies on Earth their Spirit with all its intelligence leaves their body and goes to live on in the World Beyond Earth and this is Everlasting Life but we can I suppose prove that only when we one day wake up in the After Life and learn this from first hand experience.

Its very difficult to get Earthklings to believe that Psychics can communicate with Spirit and know these things and I suppose it can become believable only when one has experienced these things oneself.

[Zeus]

Rosemary, on Aug 8 2007, 04:49 AM, said:

Well whatever you say and whatever I say there is one thing I know for certain.

Jesus was right when he said there is everlasting life.

Although I cannot prove it at this time, I know when a person dies on Earth their Spirit with all its intelligence leaves their body and goes to live on in the World Beyond Earth and this is Everlasting Life but we can I suppose prove that only when we one day wake up in the After Life and learn this from first hand experience.

Its very difficult to get Earthklings to believe that Psychics can communicate with Spirit and know these things and I suppose it can become believable only when one has experienced these things oneself.

Rose, philosophers hundreds of years before jesus had already said there is life after death, and no you can't prove there is life after death but we all know there is, not because jesus said it, but because most of us have had experiences of some kind that's got to do with forces outside of bodies, invisible forces, that's life, and rose... stop adoring men.. no man was ever perfect..

[Luna]

Alot of people believe in Jesus and the Bible. Alot of people don't.

People who believe think that people who don't believe are wrong for not believing.

People who don't believe think that people who believe are wrong for believing.

We can try to make people see our own beliefs as the "right" way to think... but this probably isn't the place for it. So maybe it's best for now to respect each others opinion and agree to disagree?

[Zeus]

Luna, on Aug 9 2007, 08:03 AM, said:

Alot of people believe in Jesus and the Bible. Alot of people don't.

People who believe think that people who don't believe are wrong for not believing.

People who don't believe think that people who believe are wrong for believing.

We can try to make people see our own beliefs as the "right" way to think... but this probably isn't the place for it. So maybe it's best for now to respect each others opinion and agree to disagree?

I already did that long ago, with everyone else, except for the G-M users who try to get me to believe stuff then I try to get them to believe stuff as well, as an exchange of knowledge, and this is between me and rosie, I'm not trying to make YOU believe something am I luna?

[Luna]

GlamRockEliteSinger, on Aug 9 2007, 11:07 PM, said:

I already did that long ago, with everyone else, except for the G-M users who try to get me to believe stuff then I try to get them to believe stuff as well, as an exchange of knowledge, and this is between me and rosie, I'm not trying to make YOU believe something am I luna?

If it's between you and Rosemary then maybe you should take it to her PM instead of a public thread.

[Zeus]

Luna, on Aug 9 2007, 08:18 AM, said:

If it's between you and Rosemary then maybe you should take it to her PM instead of a public thread.

it's between me and rose and whoever wants in to start a debate, debates are made for the sole purpose of getting into a conclusion that would lead to a nice relationship or what not, plus, rosemary and I are NOT breaking any rules, and just as fordo and rose take it seriously and sometimes offend each other, I respect rosemary now as she respects me, and just as you should have told me what you just said right now on a private message but decided to say it here for all to see not noticing that you contradicted your own "temporary theory on how to treat a thread at g-m" I'd say it's now between me and you a small time senseless argument which has nothing to do with the thread, I like rosemary cause she's quite knowledged about a lot of things, although there's some things that she believes in FAR too much, I never meant to disrespect, so don't try to defend what's not being attacked luna.

[Luna]

GlamRockEliteSinger, on Aug 9 2007, 11:21 PM, said:

it's between me and rose and whoever wants in to start a debate, debates are made for the sole purpose of getting into a conclusion that would lead to a nice relationship or what not, plus, rosemary and I are NOT breaking any rules, and just as fordo and rose take it seriously and sometimes offend each other, I respect rosemary now as she respects me, and just as you should have told me what you just said right now on a private message but decided to say it here for all to see not noticing that you contradicted your own "temporary theory on how to treat a thread at g-m" I'd say it's now between me and you a small time senseless argument which has nothing to do with the thread, I like rosemary cause she's quite knowledged about a lot of things, although there's some things that she believes in FAR too much, I never meant to disrespect, so don't try to defend what's not being attacked luna.

Fair enough, but I'm not sitting here saying that this conversation is just between you and me. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who has an opinion can voice it. Hence why this isn't in your PM. I'm all for debate, all I'm saying is this thread isn't the place for what you're debating. I'm not trying to say that either of you are breaking any rules, and I'm not saying I have a theory on how to treat threads at GM. If you would like to start your own thread about whether or not Jesus existed, or what the Bible is/means, by all means do so. But when I find something in my own thread going off topic and getting offensive, to me, sorry, I'm going to say something.

I'm not saying either of you are wrong... but it's just getting a bit nasty... and to what end?

[Zeus]

Luna, on Aug 9 2007, 08:42 AM, said:

Fair enough, but I'm not sitting here saying that this conversation is just between you and me. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who has an opinion can voice it. Hence why this isn't in your PM. I'm all for debate, all I'm saying is this thread isn't the place for what you're debating. I'm not trying to say that either of you are breaking any rules, and I'm not saying I have a theory on how to treat threads at GM. If you would like to start your own thread about whether or not Jesus existed, or what the Bible is/means, by all means do so. But when I find something in my own thread going off topic and getting offensive, to me, sorry, I'm going to say something.

I'm not saying either of you are wrong... but it's just getting a bit nasty... and to what end?

lol luna you're cute , this isn't getting nasty this is fun, learning from others =) and this isn't your thread lol, it's everyone's, actually, it's saruman's, but anyway back on topic, a 3 year old girl seeing her mom naked must be quite annoying, and why wasn't the mom charged with anything? I mean if I came in a room to find my wife and her father doing crazy stuff like that to my daughter i'd send'em both to prison for molesting her

[Rosemary]

I'm sorry if I caused dissention on this thread or this board.

I am not trying to preach to anyone about the Bible or anything and in fact my comments on the man who did the Exorcism was merely to say some of the beliefs that people have cause some people like him to try to beat or force demons from people when they are not equipped to deal with it.

But having said that I know from Personal Experience that Spirits of the Dead can actually enter the Physical body of a Human and cause them much pain and wreck havoc with their lives and when that happens few priests or deliverance ministers will get involved or try to help and when that happens sometimes people who don't know what they are doing will do these things and sometimes people get hurt.

Having said that I believe this man may have been a religious man who was dealing with an unruly rumbunctious child and he believed that She was demonized and behaved as he did.

I on the other hand do have a problem with unruly spirits of humans I have known when they walked the Earth and I have tried everything I can to free myself of them, but personally I am afraid to have inexperienced people deal with the situation even if they would after what has happened in other cases and even in the case of the Girl anallesse where the Priest and the Parents starved her to death and she died much like an anorexic did.

I have decided I am not going to tell my Possession Story anymore because no one believes it and frankly I believe the reactions to my story is just causing the Evil Spirits to believe they are in control and its not solving anything.

Hopefully one day more people will have experiences like mine and then people will believe more and then perhaps the priests who have been trained at the vatican will be more open to helping people when they ask for help and not put them through all the tests they have.

My Spirits for example don't talk in a foreign dialect and I don't display brute strength as the Preists seem to require in order for them to help someone like me.

And as for the Spirits who have convinced me they are God and Jesus although they have given me helpful Information and they state one day they will be waiting for the Spirits when they leave my dead body I have told them again this morning a lot of good that will do me then, because by then no one will be here to tell the World what is the Real Truth about the Power of God and Jesus and so if they want to keep the world believing how Powerful they are they might as well step in now and help me instead of just making threats and promises towards the four possessing spirits because its not doing any good at all.

[Luna]

Rosemary, on Aug 10 2007, 01:25 AM, said:

I'm sorry if I called dissention on this thread or this board.

I am not trying to preach to anyone about the Bible or anything and in fact my comments on the man who did the Exorcism was merely to say some of the beliefs that people have cause some people like him to try to beat or force demons from people when they are not equipped to deal with it.

But having said that I know from Personal Experience that Spirits of the Dead can actually enter the Physical body of a Human and cause them much pain and wreck havoc with their lives and when that happens few priests or deliverance ministers will get involved or try to help and when that happens sometimes people who don't know what they are doing will do these things and sometimes people get hurt.

Having said that I believe this man may have been a religious man who was dealing with an unruly rumbunctious child and he believed that She was demonized and behaved as he did.

I agree that it was probably the normal unruly behavior of the child that set him off on his exorcism tangent.

I want to apologize if I've made you or anyone else feel like it's wrong to express your beliefs or feelings. That wasn't my intent, and I'm sorry if I expressed myself in a rude way.

I didn't intend to preach about going off topic in threads, I'm as guilty of that as anyone. It's only that I feel frustrated sometimes when I go to read a topic that I'm interested in, in the hopes of reading a debate about that topic, only to find the same debate going on in 1/2 the topics I click on.

There's nothing wrong with discussing your beliefs Rosemary, whether anyone believes them or not. There's nothing wrong with debating them either. I only wish we could do it in just one thread instead all over the place.

Anyways, I'll just be over here keeping my big trap shut about it from here on out Sorry if I caused offence.

[Cheryl]

No need to apologize, Luna. You were not rude nor offensive in the slightest.

[Luna]

Cheryl, on Aug 10 2007, 03:52 AM, said:

No need to apologize, Luna. You were not rude nor offensive in the slightest.

[Kristen Khaos]

i hate how little kids get involved in violent situations such as these.....they are too young.

[Lily of the Lake]

Cheryl, on Aug 9 2007, 12:52 PM, said:

No need to apologize, Luna. You were not rude nor offensive in the slightest.

True true Luna,
If only I was awake at that time.
I agreed with you.

[Catseye]

Lily of the Lake, on Aug 9 2007, 11:07 PM, said:

True true Luna,
If only I was awake at that time.
I agreed with you.

Well said Luna.

[Zeus]

Rosemary, on Aug 9 2007, 10:25 AM, said:

I'm sorry if I caused dissention on this thread or this board.

I am not trying to preach to anyone about the Bible or anything and in fact my comments on the man who did the Exorcism was merely to say some of the beliefs that people have cause some people like him to try to beat or force demons from people when they are not equipped to deal with it.

But having said that I know from Personal Experience that Spirits of the Dead can actually enter the Physical body of a Human and cause them much pain and wreck havoc with their lives and when that happens few priests or deliverance ministers will get involved or try to help and when that happens sometimes people who don't know what they are doing will do these things and sometimes people get hurt.

Having said that I believe this man may have been a religious man who was dealing with an unruly rumbunctious child and he believed that She was demonized and behaved as he did.

I on the other hand do have a problem with unruly spirits of humans I have known when they walked the Earth and I have tried everything I can to free myself of them, but personally I am afraid to have inexperienced people deal with the situation even if they would after what has happened in other cases and even in the case of the Girl anallesse where the Priest and the Parents starved her to death and she died much like an anorexic did.

I have decided I am not going to tell my Possession Story anymore because no one believes it and frankly I believe the reactions to my story is just causing the Evil Spirits to believe they are in control and its not solving anything.

Hopefully one day more people will have experiences like mine and then people will believe more and then perhaps the priests who have been trained at the vatican will be more open to helping people when they ask for help and not put them through all the tests they have.

My Spirits for example don't talk in a foreign dialect and I don't display brute strength as the Preists seem to require in order for them to help someone like me.

And as for the Spirits who have convinced me they are God and Jesus although they have given me helpful Information and they state one day they will be waiting for the Spirits when they leave my dead body I have told them again this morning a lot of good that will do me then, because by then no one will be here to tell the World what is the Real Truth about the Power of God and Jesus and so if they want to keep the world believing how Powerful they are they might as well step in now and help me instead of just making threats and promises towards the four possessing spirits because its not doing any good at all.

it's alright rose you know I kind of admire you you're very knowledgeable of MANY things, I simply don't like the side of you that believes in certain things WAY too much but, are you like a scientist? or a chemist ?

[Rosemary]

GlamRockEliteSinger, on Aug 10 2007, 03:39 AM, said:

it's alright rose you know I kind of admire you you're very knowledgeable of MANY things, I simply don't like the side of you that believes in certain things WAY too much but, are you like a scientist? or a chemist ?

No I'm not a scientist or a chemist.

When I write here spirits in the Spirit World and the four inside me join me here and they add their too cents worth to the copy and sometimes they sound condescending and talk down to people and put words in that cause people to react to the writing in a negative way then once they get the people riled up they turn their kind face around and talk to them in a nice way.

Quite often I will go back later and read what was said after someone complains and I will immediately know that I am not the one writing that.

There is a source I know as the Akaskic records who has given me information for Medical Research and all sorts of things including detective solving but the four inside my body have begun attacking me so brutally its now hard for me to sit calmly and gather that kind of information and so its become even more important that I try to drive them from my body and my home so I can work in peace.

I want to help with things like Cancer research and all sorts of things and they are here to prevent me from reaching my Guide in the Spirit World who can help.

[Luna]

* UPDATED *



911 tapes show alarmed family in exorcism case
Jordan LaPier
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 14, 2007 12:00 AM


Ronald Marquez and his 19-year-old daughter believed they were communicating with God and deceased relatives before they performed what family members described as an exorcism on Marquez's young granddaughter, according to 911 tapes obtained Monday. Family members called police three times in a one-hour span on July 28.

Officers arrived at the home near 24th Street and McDowell Road in Phoenix, and said they found Marquez holding his 3-year-old granddaughter in a headlock. As Marquez choked his bloodied granddaughter, the girl's mother, naked and bloody, looked on, chanted and held a religious picture, police said.

Officers stunned Marquez, 48, with a Taser and he later died at a nearby hospital.

In the first 911 call to police, at 6:22 a.m., the family told of unusual happenings in the household.

"She thinks she is some kind of an angel, that God sent her," Marquez's sister said of the toddler's mother in the first 911 call.

In another 911 call, Marquez's brother told a dispatcher that Marquez's daughter had seen God and her great-grandmother, dead 14 years, "in the backyard sitting right next to her."

Marquez and his daughter had told family members that deceased relatives were urging them to rid the house of devils, Marquez's brother said.

"They're putting circles around (my mother's) doors, throwing all her shampoos away, all the stuff on the walls they're throwing away, saying it's the devil's stuff," Marquez's brother told a dispatcher.

Marquez's brother said his niece injured her head in a car accident a week before, but refused to take prescribed medication.

"Now that his daughter has gone into another world, he's (Marquez) like, following her," the brother said. "He's following her, whatever she does. She walks around at night with a robe, blessing houses and stuff like that."

When Marquez's brother tried to approach the room where the exorcism was taking place, he said Marquez shouted at him in an "evil voice," a "voice I never heard before to 'get out of here, get out of here, get out of here!' "

He said he heard his brother yelling: "Cry, cry."

During about 20 minutes of recorded 911 conversations, Marquez's sister made the only clear mention that it was Marquez's granddaughter involved in the exorcism. "She's in there screaming and crying like she's scared, like she don't know what's going on," she said.

In the final call to 911, the brother said Marquez was getting worse.

"She needs help. Both of them do," he said. "I don't know what's going on in there but I hope he's OK."

The child received medical treatment and was placed in protective custody.

Police have not released the identity of the 19-year-old mother, who is hospitalized. It is not known whether police will charge her with a crime.
SOURCE
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