[fiendo]

.

[karma]

What a fantastic idea Fordo.... Im more then willing to help take on some of the work. A guideline would definatley weed out some of the less obvious fakes.

[SammyTerry]

in the words of Dr Phil...LETS DOIT!

[Zeus]

there's someone here at g-m that does it all the time fordo, we just don't pay attention to her, lol, you know who that is

[Gigan]

Now now!

I concur thought Fordo, some scientific perameters I think is a great idea. But where to begin????

[Zeus]

Gigan, on Jun 13 2007, 12:44 PM, said:

Now now!

I concur thought Fordo, some scientific perameters I think is a great idea. But where to begin????

as I've said.. we don't need to ask ourselves on parameters.. you know who Really is good at this.. you can just ask her..

[Rosemary]

I have some ideas and I hope you don't mind me replying to this because I believe I may be you know who?

I know its hard to prove these things and believe me after visiting U-Tube and reading some of the psychic blasters who are taking on about every skeptic and every psychic they have ever heard of I believe we are dealing with things that need to be cleared up.

Some of the people blasting the various psychics are saying things like they should be hanged and dropped in sulfuric acid and all sorts of things and of course that is what happened to Psychics like Jesus, and Joan of Arc and the so called witches of Salem.

I personally believe the burden of proof should not be placed on the Psychic who knows how to communicate and knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that they can see and hear Spirits, I believe the Burden of proof should be placed on the ones who are calling the Psychics liars and scammers and dillussional and things like that, and the non-believers should be challenged to learn what they can about developing their own Psychic Abilities and this can be done by spending time meditating and it can take a while to do this because it involves dispiline and wanting to master this Gift and so you need to be devoted and sometimes be willing to spend several hours a day sitting quietly projecting thoughts into the Universe hoping some of the Spirits will connect with you and want to work with you, and I believe developing this gift is just like training for any career it takes learning and studying.

If there is a Spiritual Church in your area this is a good place to start because once you visit there and you begin receiving messages from your relatives and friends who have passed over as they are delivered through other mediums there you will begin to believe especially after they tell you personal things about your dearly departed that only you and they know and that is how I first got interested in going there.

The day my sister first asked me to go there I felt like most of you and I kept saying no but she wouldn't take no for an answer and when I first walked into the church I felt strange but once inside I realized it was just like most churches with a preacher and songs but here there was a medium to give messages.

One word of caution though, while they do believe in spirit communication and teach how to do it if you run into a problem with a mean spirit you are on your own with that because they like most believe only in Angels and Demons and refuse to believe the so called Demons can in many cases just be mean realtives and others in the Spirit World.

I believe when you delve into the Paranormal you have to know not only the joys of communication but you must also be forwarned of some of the bad things that can come of it.

[fiendo]

Ok, i think the first thing i would like to clear up, is its all very simple, all i'm after, are some basic parameters and guidelines that we can use to "sort the chaff from the wheat" in a manner of speaking. I'm not at all concerned with belivers V unbelivers, etc, in fact, i think this is an idea that both sides of the skeptic /beliver arguement should be able to embrace, after all, doesnt a "fake" ghost picture, encounter, or dodgy spiritualist simply have a negative effect on the beliver and the skeptic alike? dont we all agree that some simple ground rule for investigation, would benefit us all? despite where our allegiances may be grounded?
perhaps to kick things off, we need to make a break down of the various types of phenomena, cetain classifications perhaps?
ie: visual anomaly
psychological anomaly
physical manifestation
"religous Experiance'
etc, etc.....(by the way, i just punched this out rather hastily, but you get my meaning, )
so does anyone have the time, to put down their ideas?
AND....(stern and that ) remember, the key to making this work, is of course to remain impartial, put personal belife aside for awhile, and see if we can progress beyond the usual judgements made from our own little corner view.....

[Zeus]

yes rose that's what fordo meant, I mean, what we need rosemary is that in case a picture comes up, we can ask the one who took it, what he belives in, where he did it, why he took the pic at first, what he felt, what drugs is he taking, when does he feel angry sad happy, does he believe in ghosts ? that kind of stuff

[totallyunderstoodnot]

Fordo, on Jun 13 2007, 05:29 AM, said:

Hullo all,
here is something that i have often asked, but no one is yet to reply, maybe because for the most part the question comes up as part of one of my foolish rants.
so here is, Does anyone have any surgestions or ideas for some basic guidelines to establishing the validity of a paranormal experiance?
often i see on this site many members howling down pictures or storys, but what i'm concerned with, is does any one have a "Measure" so to speak for testing a experiance or phenomena? (without bringing religious or personal bias in to it)
I think with the combined brain power of members on this site, we could at least hash out some basic guide lines for the serious investigation of occurances.
for instance, a clear set of "dismissives" could be set, ie: was the witness bent off their head on drugs? if so, most likely not a reliable account . was the witness emotianally distressed? etc..etc...
i could do some hard work here, and put down what i belive would be a credible , and rational guide to dealing with what many lable paranormal, but first i would like to implore the learned denizens of GM to have have their say...
c'mon everyone, lets "Draw the Line"....

[totallyunderstoodnot]

well you are asking an age old question pretty much inquired since the dawn of man..except in earlier times we accepted alot less proof ... what does constitute absolute proof of life after death??
honestly in these times short of jesus coming to earth (75 percent of population would still have problem with that especially if he was'nt white) unfortunately we will not have PROOF until we have a mankind willing to accept the fact that we are not alone(humans have a real problem believing we are not alone in the universe therefore our"god" is not just ours" we will not evolve. speaking
from a 70's generation i see a real improvement on our next generation to be able to step away from all the hype the oldies impose on them and see the future d
\

[Luna]

Having clear cut guidelines would be pretty difficult for sure. If someone has faked something, they're going to tell us all the things they think we want to hear about it, to convince that it's real. If someone has something they think is real...well they're gonna say the same thing as the faker, except they'll be telling the truth. Maybe we just need some sort of virtual lie detector test.
Seriously though, in the end I think it comes down to personal opinion and beliefs. I know someone who says "photoshop" at every single ghost pic I show them. It wouldn't matter if I told them the picture taker was totally sober, doesn't smoke, had a recent passing...etc etc. They'll contest anything, that's just the type of person they are, and the type of personal belief system that they have. Some people see a Mayors face in this tree: http://edition.cnn.c...e.ap/index.html
Some people see Jesus. It's all a matter of perception. I have my own personal guidlines...for instance I don't believe in orbs...but with all the orb pics/video on the net, I'd say there's alot of people out there who do. That guideline wouldn't fly for them.
Anyways, that's just my opinion, if you don't agree...be gentle.

[fiendo]

I'm not asking for proof, actually,

[Greygoat]

Sadly I must admit that Fordo is asking a perfectly valid question.

Firstly let me respond to the latest posts. We are not being asked to prove the validity of sightings.
We are being asked to show a modicum of common sense and actually think for five seconds before we say 'it's real' or 'photoshop'.

Glammy, be nice! Rosemary actually makes some interesting points. She points out that the burden of proof is put on the claimant or else when the reader does take on the burden of truth it this most often a negative response. The finding of 'proof' implies the need for something like the scientific method and this is what Fordo seems to be begging for. By it's nature proof can never be totally achieved. We can only find evidence which disproves or fails to disprove. Thus, the apparent negativeness of serious researchers.

Next, I would like to point out that the first respondants to Fordo were very keen to back up the concept of guidelines, but failed to follow through with anything useful.

Finally, I will attempt to respond to Fordo's original question. (ie: put this thread back on topic - not that it ever got onto the topic)

Questions to ask ourselves when confronted with a picture or story:

1. Does the story come from a 'reliable' source. Yes, I realise that defining this opens up a huge can of worms.

2. Do pictures show signs of tampering such as incosistancies in contrasts or pixellation in different parts of a picture.

3. What were the weather conditions? Could this affect perception?

4. Was the person subject to drugs or a medical condition that might lead to hallucinations?

5. Is the story consistant within itself? (ie: no contradictions appear when the story is retold)

6. Is the story a relelling of an existing myth?

7. What is the history of the site?

But I'm just a goat - I'm sure you lot can improve on this.

[Zeus]

totallyunderstoodnot, on Jun 16 2007, 07:56 PM, said:

well you are asking an age old question pretty much inquired since the dawn of man..except in earlier times we accepted alot less proof ... what does constitute absolute proof of life after death??
honestly in these times short of jesus coming to earth (75 percent of population would still have problem with that especially if he was'nt white) unfortunately we will not have PROOF until we have a mankind willing to accept the fact that we are not alone(humans have a real problem believing we are not alone in the universe therefore our"god" is not just ours" we will not evolve. speaking
from a 70's generation i see a real improvement on our next generation to be able to step away from all the hype the oldies impose on them and see the future d
\

Good stuff, after the 70's people, at least in United States have grown out of religions of all kinds in manyways and I'm so glad it's now vanishing, we all must seek truth through experiments and experience, not through ancient rules :/

[Greygoat]

GlamRockEliteSinger, on Jun 17 2007, 08:29 PM, said:

Good stuff, after the 70's people, at least in United States have grown out of religions of all kinds in manyways and I'm so glad it's now vanishing, we all must seek truth through experiments and experience, not through ancient rules :/

Science is a useful tool, but it is no replacement for religion,
The earliest scientists were often priests.

[fiendo]

does anyone have any idea what this topic was about?

[Rosemary]

GlamRockEliteSinger, on Jun 17 2007, 06:29 AM, said:

Good stuff, after the 70's people, at least in United States have grown out of religions of all kinds in manyways and I'm so glad it's now vanishing, we all must seek truth through experiments and experience, not through ancient rules :/

In my posts about my Psychic Experiences I personally have not advocated growing out of Religion, and in fact people believe many things.

In my communication with the Spirit World I have sought to prove Life after Death, and creation and Evolution and tried to incourage people to develop their own Psychic Gift which I believe we all have and learn first hand like I have the good and the Evil's that lurks not only in the World Beyond but how it influenes us in our everyday life whether we believe in Life after Death or not.

Whether we believe in Life beyond Earth or not its still a reality but as yet an unproven reality unless you experience it yourselves and only then can you know what I and other Communicators know which seems so hard for most people on Earth to accept.

Whether we believe it or not, and whether we have experienced it or not, it is still there and only those who can see and hear spirits after developing their Psychic Gift can know what really lies beyond and that is why I personally have suggested that those who want proof should learn everything they can about how others do this and if they so choose then you can let it be known to Spirits in the After Life that you are interested in doing Research and help to prove these things.

Now while I don't want to ever discourage people from believieving in a Higher Power because I know personally one exists and I know he has great powers, and can look into the past and the future hundreds of years and he can Predict death even before it comes and he has given me the gift to see peoples deaths long before they happen and if those deaths are to be from Medical causes or accidents sometimes by taking swift action those predicted to die can save themselves.

I am not always pleased with the actions of the Man who has appeared to me as God and we have a lot of discussions and hopefully one day he will help me solve some of the problems that I feel he and his angels brought into my life by tapping me as a Channel for Spirit but in the meantime I can't do anything to solve those problems and so i guess for now I just need to keep writing about what I have learned from him and the others.

I have come to realize while the bible is very inspiriational to me and others I have a few problems with it as it pertains to my own life and I have discussed this with the Guides, and now I have come to realize the Scribes who wrote the bible were Psychic Channells for Spirit just as I and many Psychics are and they personally put their own spin on much of the information they got from the Powers that be in the Spirit World.

I say keep the bible and religion because I believe the world would be a far worse place without it, but I don't believe that God meant for the Bible to continue to cause such problems in the Middle East down through the ages simply because back then he told Jesus to go fourth and save Isrial.

I believe those statements have caused Isrial and Palestine to fight down through the ages and believe they are the chosen ones and they even pray and thank God for helping them kill their enemies when we all Know that God does not pick up guns and kill people and he does not like war and he surely does not like these Killers breaking on of his commandmants which says:

"Thou Shalt Not Kill".
Speaking of Killing I have been following the case of the Missing Pregnant woman in Ohio and know who killed her and why but I can't reveal that at this time, because I have sent the Information to authorities and now I don't want to do anything to jeopardize the case.

[Gigan]

I'm with GreyGoat on this...

I think he's given us a good foundation to start our thought process regarding this rather unfathomable subject.

[Zeus]

Greygoat, on Jun 20 2007, 03:59 AM, said:

Science is a useful tool, but it is no replacement for religion,
The earliest scientists were often priests.

Anyone who preached the supposed "truth" was considered a priest in the old ages.